7 ms·

Czech Man's Stone in Barn's Foundations Is Rare Bronze Age Spearhead Mold

84 points by bookofjoe 8mo ago

gedy 8mo ago
Interesting topic, but so sad to see the Smithsonian blanketed in tacky popups and scrolling ad banners, yikes
- Mistletoe 8mo ago
  > The Smithsonian Institution endowment is a roughly $2.6 billion investment portfolio (as of 2024) that provides permanent, private financial support for its museums, research, and educational programs. It acts as a crucial supplement to federal funding, investing in diversified assets like stocks, bonds, and private equity to generate annual payouts, which generally support staff positions I guess $2.6B isn’t enough in the late stage capitalism era to stave off tacky.
  - ggm 8mo ago
    Hate to be a party pooper but what kind of income do you beleive is sustaining for a national museum with extensive archives, repositories, conservation costs and ongoing collection needs, quite apart from simple building maintenance, outreach and staffing? $2.6b generates at best of the order $200m in usable funds. I would be amazed if that is even remotely close to the operating costs of an institution like this.
    - Someone 8mo ago
      Reading https://www.si.edu/sites/default/files/oa/smithsonian-2024-web.pdf https://www.si.edu/sites/default/files/oa/smithsonian-2024-w..., they’re spending $1.7b a year. Interesting financial report, by the way. Lots of info about what they do with photos, lists of who donated money, and then, the real financials start at page 79 of 87 and end on page 82.
      - ggm 8mo ago
        has "Endowment Payout 7%" which is a fine figure, both of their total revenue and of the %return on investment you get as a sustaining proposition from a long life fund. Half the opex is federally funded. half the costs are salaries. The SI employs a lot of people and costs far, far more than the endowment to operate. the page 80 endowment disbursement distribution is fascinating too. they do amazingly good work across the board, from this money. I have a tiny, weenie functional duty of care on a board over a sum 1/100 of this size and if I felt we were doing as well as them in governance, I'd be proud. I will say, I think they should lawyer up and defend the retention of the shuttle and tell the politicians to F off but I can understand reluctance to be this bald about it.
    - throwaway27448 8mo ago
      How does our military fund itself? How does the war in Iran fund itself? C'mon let's be serious: it's a public service and it should be funded by the state.
      - ggm 8mo ago
        I think thats the point I was making. I was responding to a post which suggested the endowment should be adequate to self fund. It's clearly not. It's useful, self-directed funds.
- sandworm101 8mo ago
  Funny, i didnt see any ads or popups. Horray for adblockers!
- fransje26 8mo ago
  In this day and age, who on HN browses the web without an ad-blocker??
  - gedy 8mo ago
    I am using blockers! I appreciate my plugins and/or adblock home could have some issue, but point stands about the Smithsonian.
    - jrrv 8mo ago
      I'm using uBlock, and I didn't see a single advert.
  - bookofjoe 8mo ago
    I do. Never have used an ad blocker and never will.
    - simonmales 8mo ago
      What's the risk? Personally, I only see benefits.
      - bookofjoe 8mo ago
        It's not a matter of risks for me. I haven't a clue how to install an ad blocker, being a non-techie geezer. Same for VPN etc. The only code I know is Morse and I've forgotten most of it. Every time I remark on this subject, well meaning commenters tell me how easy it is to install/use an ad blocker. "Just..." — in my experience, statements that begin with "Just..." end up leaving me frustrated once I've tried and failed to follow the "simple"/"easy" instructions. Also, I note that commenters here WITH ad blockers installed sometimes STILL see ads. So why bother? I don't understand the enmity of HN in general for online ads and advertising.
        em-bee 8mo ago
        commenters here WITH ad blockers installed sometimes STILL see ads very rarely. I don't understand the enmity of HN in general for online ads and advertising i am surprised that you noticed the one but not figured out the other. because that is also discussed at length. advertising enables surveillance, ads cost resources, and they distract from the content.
- pwg 8mo ago
  Browsing with Ublock Origin blocking all of the javascript resulted in the article appearing, but zero ads.
- herewulf 8mo ago
  While that is indeed sad, you owe it to yourself to install Firefox (Android?) with uBlock Origin. With that setup, I'm not seeing any of that junk.
twooclock 8mo ago
Now find the spearehed, please! Is it possible? What are the chances? Was bronze age production heigh enough?
- inglor_cz 8mo ago
  Most ancient metalwork got recycled again and again, so while there is a chance, it would be pure luck. BTW if you visit some archeological museum, the difference between Stone Age tools and Bronze Age tools is quite striking. In the Stone Age, each tool looks different, while by the Bronze Age, the spearheads etc. are so uniform that they could have been produced in a modern factory.
  - card_zero 8mo ago
    Yes and no. Here's a pile of 19 polished stone axes: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Malone_hoard.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Malone_hoard.JPG They're admittedly different sizes, but the intent to churn them out is clear. These things were ambiguously tools or currency: they were transported long distances and hoarded. There was another, older, stone age industrial site in France that produced thousands of beads. The way I remember it*, there was evidence that they fed themselves by trading beads for food. It's interesting to me that a stone age lifestyle might for some people resemble factory work. *My apologies if I'm confabulating this. I think it was in the Loire Valley. I need to track down what exactly I'm half-remembering here.
    - inglor_cz 8mo ago
      This is an interesting counterexample, thank you. It seems that in some places, some standardization was already present back then.
    - PepperdineG 8mo ago
      >It's interesting to me that a stone age lifestyle might for some people resemble factory work. There was not only factory work but unpleasant factory work like making birch tar and rendering fat.
OJFord 8mo ago
Bound the halves with copper wire! I always end up with more questions than answers on these things, how was the wire made? I suppose if I'd thought about it, clearly they could do wire for jewellery. Never ceases to impress me how long ago we were capable of such ornate manufacturing really—most of the time I think progress has been wildly more rapid over the last century or so, and it has in some ways, but in others we're still just doing things we've been doing for millennia.
- card_zero 8mo ago
  I was thinking about how they did the hollow part. The mold needs a carefully centered stopper where the shaft goes. Some sort of jig of wires to keep it in place.
  - rnewme 8mo ago
    There's index hole on the bottom, you can see it running across. See more Stone Moulds from Terramare (Northern Italy): Analytical Approach and Experimental Reproduction Persistent Identifier https://exarc.net/ark:/88735/10145 https://exarc.net/ark:/88735/10145 Fig 11. Ophiolite multiple mould for razor and spear-head.
- sandworm101 8mo ago
  It wouldnt have looked or felt like wire. It wouldnt be very round. Hammer a thin plate then slice a spiral with an obsidian knife. You wont by making knots with it, just wrapping it around molds. But i would think that wet cord or sinew would have worked just as well. Or they could put the mold in the ground, letting packed dirt keep the two halfs together.
jrrv 8mo ago
Such an interesting artefact just sat under some guy's barn... can't help but wonder how many more items like this there are out there, and how many of them we'll never find before they're accidentally destroyed.
- em-bee 8mo ago
  aren't most such artifacts found by starting to dig somewhere? how many artifacts remain buried because you just start building on top without looking what's in the ground? almost every village or city in europe has a history going back millennium or more, burying countless interesting artifacts. many of which probably have already been destroyed in the process. to find new artifacts the best hope is to look for historical sites that have not been built over already. what i find interesting here is that now with aerial and satellite images and AI search we are able to detect such sites even when they would otherwise be unnoticed by the human eye.
- inglor_cz 8mo ago
  There is a lot of stuff underground, especially in the regions that have been settled by humans in the first millennia of agriculture. My favorite in Czechia was a married pair that decided to build their family house on a plot not far from the Southern Moravian city of Znojmo (2007). They started digging the foundations ... ... and found out that their future home is going to be located in the outer zone of a huge necropolis from the 8th and 9th century. Several hundred silent neighbours at the least.
xtiansimon 8mo ago
This website is unusable on mobile.
- bookofjoe 8mo ago
  For you. Here are two screenshots of the website taken a moment ago on iPhone 15 Pro Max: https://imgur.com/a/fRyE2ha https://imgur.com/a/fRyE2ha
_brettfitz77 8mo ago
[dead]

84 points by bookofjoe 8mo ago

gedy 8mo ago

Interesting topic, but so sad to see the Smithsonian blanketed in tacky popups and scrolling ad banners, yikes

Mistletoe 8mo ago
> The Smithsonian Institution endowment is a roughly $2.6 billion investment portfolio (as of 2024) that provides permanent, private financial support for its museums, research, and educational programs. It acts as a crucial supplement to federal funding, investing in diversified assets like stocks, bonds, and private equity to generate annual payouts, which generally support staff positions I guess $2.6B isn’t enough in the late stage capitalism era to stave off tacky.
- ggm 8mo ago
  Hate to be a party pooper but what kind of income do you beleive is sustaining for a national museum with extensive archives, repositories, conservation costs and ongoing collection needs, quite apart from simple building maintenance, outreach and staffing? $2.6b generates at best of the order $200m in usable funds. I would be amazed if that is even remotely close to the operating costs of an institution like this.
  - Someone 8mo ago
    Reading https://www.si.edu/sites/default/files/oa/smithsonian-2024-web.pdf https://www.si.edu/sites/default/files/oa/smithsonian-2024-w..., they’re spending $1.7b a year. Interesting financial report, by the way. Lots of info about what they do with photos, lists of who donated money, and then, the real financials start at page 79 of 87 and end on page 82.
    - ggm 8mo ago
      has "Endowment Payout 7%" which is a fine figure, both of their total revenue and of the %return on investment you get as a sustaining proposition from a long life fund. Half the opex is federally funded. half the costs are salaries. The SI employs a lot of people and costs far, far more than the endowment to operate. the page 80 endowment disbursement distribution is fascinating too. they do amazingly good work across the board, from this money. I have a tiny, weenie functional duty of care on a board over a sum 1/100 of this size and if I felt we were doing as well as them in governance, I'd be proud. I will say, I think they should lawyer up and defend the retention of the shuttle and tell the politicians to F off but I can understand reluctance to be this bald about it.
  - throwaway27448 8mo ago
    How does our military fund itself? How does the war in Iran fund itself? C'mon let's be serious: it's a public service and it should be funded by the state.
    - ggm 8mo ago
      I think thats the point I was making. I was responding to a post which suggested the endowment should be adequate to self fund. It's clearly not. It's useful, self-directed funds.
sandworm101 8mo ago
Funny, i didnt see any ads or popups. Horray for adblockers!
fransje26 8mo ago
In this day and age, who on HN browses the web without an ad-blocker??
- gedy 8mo ago
  I am using blockers! I appreciate my plugins and/or adblock home could have some issue, but point stands about the Smithsonian.
  - jrrv 8mo ago
    I'm using uBlock, and I didn't see a single advert.
- bookofjoe 8mo ago
  I do. Never have used an ad blocker and never will.
  - simonmales 8mo ago
    What's the risk? Personally, I only see benefits.
    - bookofjoe 8mo ago
      It's not a matter of risks for me. I haven't a clue how to install an ad blocker, being a non-techie geezer. Same for VPN etc. The only code I know is Morse and I've forgotten most of it. Every time I remark on this subject, well meaning commenters tell me how easy it is to install/use an ad blocker. "Just..." — in my experience, statements that begin with "Just..." end up leaving me frustrated once I've tried and failed to follow the "simple"/"easy" instructions. Also, I note that commenters here WITH ad blockers installed sometimes STILL see ads. So why bother? I don't understand the enmity of HN in general for online ads and advertising.
      - em-bee 8mo ago
        commenters here WITH ad blockers installed sometimes STILL see ads very rarely. I don't understand the enmity of HN in general for online ads and advertising i am surprised that you noticed the one but not figured out the other. because that is also discussed at length. advertising enables surveillance, ads cost resources, and they distract from the content.
pwg 8mo ago
Browsing with Ublock Origin blocking all of the javascript resulted in the article appearing, but zero ads.
herewulf 8mo ago
While that is indeed sad, you owe it to yourself to install Firefox (Android?) with uBlock Origin. With that setup, I'm not seeing any of that junk.

twooclock 8mo ago

Now find the spearehed, please! Is it possible? What are the chances? Was bronze age production heigh enough?

inglor_cz 8mo ago
Most ancient metalwork got recycled again and again, so while there is a chance, it would be pure luck. BTW if you visit some archeological museum, the difference between Stone Age tools and Bronze Age tools is quite striking. In the Stone Age, each tool looks different, while by the Bronze Age, the spearheads etc. are so uniform that they could have been produced in a modern factory.
- card_zero 8mo ago
  Yes and no. Here's a pile of 19 polished stone axes: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Malone_hoard.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Malone_hoard.JPG They're admittedly different sizes, but the intent to churn them out is clear. These things were ambiguously tools or currency: they were transported long distances and hoarded. There was another, older, stone age industrial site in France that produced thousands of beads. The way I remember it*, there was evidence that they fed themselves by trading beads for food. It's interesting to me that a stone age lifestyle might for some people resemble factory work. *My apologies if I'm confabulating this. I think it was in the Loire Valley. I need to track down what exactly I'm half-remembering here.
  - inglor_cz 8mo ago
    This is an interesting counterexample, thank you. It seems that in some places, some standardization was already present back then.
  - PepperdineG 8mo ago
    >It's interesting to me that a stone age lifestyle might for some people resemble factory work. There was not only factory work but unpleasant factory work like making birch tar and rendering fat.

OJFord 8mo ago

Bound the halves with copper wire! I always end up with more questions than answers on these things, how was the wire made? I suppose if I'd thought about it, clearly they could do wire for jewellery. Never ceases to impress me how long ago we were capable of such ornate manufacturing really—most of the time I think progress has been wildly more rapid over the last century or so, and it has in some ways, but in others we're still just doing things we've been doing for millennia.

card_zero 8mo ago
I was thinking about how they did the hollow part. The mold needs a carefully centered stopper where the shaft goes. Some sort of jig of wires to keep it in place.
- rnewme 8mo ago
  There's index hole on the bottom, you can see it running across. See more Stone Moulds from Terramare (Northern Italy): Analytical Approach and Experimental Reproduction Persistent Identifier https://exarc.net/ark:/88735/10145 https://exarc.net/ark:/88735/10145 Fig 11. Ophiolite multiple mould for razor and spear-head.
sandworm101 8mo ago
It wouldnt have looked or felt like wire. It wouldnt be very round. Hammer a thin plate then slice a spiral with an obsidian knife. You wont by making knots with it, just wrapping it around molds. But i would think that wet cord or sinew would have worked just as well. Or they could put the mold in the ground, letting packed dirt keep the two halfs together.

jrrv 8mo ago

Such an interesting artefact just sat under some guy's barn... can't help but wonder how many more items like this there are out there, and how many of them we'll never find before they're accidentally destroyed.

em-bee 8mo ago
aren't most such artifacts found by starting to dig somewhere? how many artifacts remain buried because you just start building on top without looking what's in the ground? almost every village or city in europe has a history going back millennium or more, burying countless interesting artifacts. many of which probably have already been destroyed in the process. to find new artifacts the best hope is to look for historical sites that have not been built over already. what i find interesting here is that now with aerial and satellite images and AI search we are able to detect such sites even when they would otherwise be unnoticed by the human eye.
inglor_cz 8mo ago
There is a lot of stuff underground, especially in the regions that have been settled by humans in the first millennia of agriculture. My favorite in Czechia was a married pair that decided to build their family house on a plot not far from the Southern Moravian city of Znojmo (2007). They started digging the foundations ... ... and found out that their future home is going to be located in the outer zone of a huge necropolis from the 8th and 9th century. Several hundred silent neighbours at the least.

xtiansimon 8mo ago

This website is unusable on mobile.

bookofjoe 8mo ago
For you. Here are two screenshots of the website taken a moment ago on iPhone 15 Pro Max: https://imgur.com/a/fRyE2ha https://imgur.com/a/fRyE2ha

_brettfitz77 8mo ago

[dead]