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Do you honestly believe Israel hasn't done that for decades?
by spwa4 8mo ago
Do you honestly believe Israel hasn't done that for decades?
- Nevermark 8mo agoI am certainly not defending Iran, but one of their gripes had merit. Israel’s illegal annexation and settling of land that wasn’t theirs. And their policy of overlooking violence against the previous inhabitants. Genocide slow burn. So I don’t know what good any diplomacy could have been in that context.
- hersko 8mo ago> Genocide slow burn. So slow it's going backwards.
- UltraSane 8mo agoIran severely persecutes Baha'is with bans on higher education, employment, and imprisonment. The Iranian government often labels unrecognized religious minorities as "heretics" or "apostates," subjecting them to harassment and violence.
- Nevermark 8mo agoAgreed, Iran has a truly terrible regime. My point was that Israel was also not an innocent player in the failure of diplomacy. Neither country's participation in systematic unjust violence is excused by the other. Regardless of relative differences in scale or not, they both harm people who did not deserve it, promote and coerce complicity within their own populations, create international instability, and degrade the human condition for everyone else.
- UltraSane 8mo agoIran wants to destroy Israel. Israel just wants to exist.
- cindyllm 8mo ago[dead]
- Nevermark 8mo agoI get it. I agree. Iran’s regime is awful. The Palestinians who have been killed by settlers might not find that helpful. Just as innocent Israeli’s who have been killed by Iranian proxies do not benefit from their own country’s crimes. Victims are victims. Any argument by a group that their crimes get a pass, because they commit fewer atrocities is broken. The perpetrators of fewer atrocities, and those who give them cover, regardless of whataboutism, have still thrown away any moral standing.
- UltraSane 8mo agoThe current Iranian government has made the destruction of Israel one of its most fundamental goals.
- Nevermark 8mo agoYou keep saying that, and I keep agreeing. Do you think that makes the killing, violence and harassment of Palestinians, individuals who are not provoking, by uninvited settlers on their land one iota less detestable? It doesn’t help Israel to only point out the crimes of others, if they are not concerned about their own. This is a problem that troubles many people who support Israel against Iran. Which, I do, whole heartedly. I am not making any arguments of false equivalence. But concern about only one set of crimes is a deeply false and immoral dichotomy.
- UltraSane 8mo ago"Do you think that makes the killing, violence and harassment of Palestinians, individuals who are not provoking, by uninvited settlers on their land one iota less detestable?" Most Gazans want to destroy Israel and that is the explicit goal of Hamas. They think they can get their land back by force but they can't and trying just makes their lives worse.
- saint_yossarian 8mo agoDo you honestly believe they did? > Iran and Israel have maintained no diplomatic relations since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, and their relationship has been characterized by hostility ever since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations
- breppp 8mo agothat's untrue by the way, Israel sold weapons to Iran and supported it with intelligence against Iraq after 1979
- dr00tb 8mo agoYou seriously believe Israel has conducted good-faith diplomatic endeavors for decades? A history of terrorattacks and extrajudicial killings in neighboring countries and even European[1] countries tell a different story. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
- UltraSane 8mo agoI think Israel is fighting for its survival against enemies that would absolutely destroy it if they could.
- gravisultra 8mo ago[flagged]
- tastyface 8mo agoIs continuing to apply extreme violence against these enemies likely to lead to a good result? What is the end state? I think we are fast approaching an era where weapons of mass destruction, by way of cheap killbot swarms, are trivially accessible to any government. Without radical diplomacy, I fear the entire Middle East -- Israel included -- is on a path to annihilation.
- steve-atx-7600 8mo agoI think it can be as simple as if you defeat your enemy first, they can’t defeat you or continue to threaten you.
- tastyface 8mo agoDefeating an enemy to the extent that they can't drive a truck full of AI killbots into a busy city center is an impossible task barring a scorched earth approach. And if that option is on the table -- killing millions to secure Israel's future -- then Israel seals its fate regardless. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Old advice that continues to ring true.
- Hikikomori 8mo agoIsrael killed Irans negotiators just last year. How can you be this deluded.
- spaghetdefects 8mo agoSince its inception, Israel has waged war and acts of terror on all of its neighbors (and much of the rest of the world).