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Then it was a very strange choice to go to war with a neighbor that's known to have massive stockpiles of missiles. Maybe it's just me, but if I were in such
by themafia 7mo ago
Then it was a very strange choice to go to war with a neighbor that's known to have massive stockpiles of missiles.
Maybe it's just me, but if I were in such a suboptimal defensive materiel position, I would try diplomacy first. In fact, I would make it my mission to be the world recognized leader in diplomacy.
- cindyllm 7mo ago[dead]
- mohsen1 7mo agoNeighbor?!
- spwa4 7mo agoDo you honestly believe Israel hasn't done that for decades?
- Nevermark 7mo agoI am certainly not defending Iran, but one of their gripes had merit. Israel’s illegal annexation and settling of land that wasn’t theirs. And their policy of overlooking violence against the previous inhabitants. Genocide slow burn. So I don’t know what good any diplomacy could have been in that context.
- hersko 7mo ago> Genocide slow burn. So slow it's going backwards.
- UltraSane 7mo agoIran severely persecutes Baha'is with bans on higher education, employment, and imprisonment. The Iranian government often labels unrecognized religious minorities as "heretics" or "apostates," subjecting them to harassment and violence.
- Nevermark 7mo agoAgreed, Iran has a truly terrible regime. My point was that Israel was also not an innocent player in the failure of diplomacy. Neither country's participation in systematic unjust violence is excused by the other. Regardless of relative differences in scale or not, they both harm people who did not deserve it, promote and coerce complicity within their own populations, create international instability, and degrade the human condition for everyone else.
- UltraSane 7mo agoIran wants to destroy Israel. Israel just wants to exist.
- cindyllm 7mo ago[dead]
- Nevermark 7mo agoI get it. I agree. Iran’s regime is awful. The Palestinians who have been killed by settlers might not find that helpful. Just as innocent Israeli’s who have been killed by Iranian proxies do not benefit from their own country’s crimes. Victims are victims. Any argument by a group that their crimes get a pass, because they commit fewer atrocities is broken. The perpetrators of fewer atrocities, and those who give them cover, regardless of whataboutism, have still thrown away any moral standing.
- saint_yossarian 7mo agoDo you honestly believe they did? > Iran and Israel have maintained no diplomatic relations since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, and their relationship has been characterized by hostility ever since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations
- breppp 7mo agothat's untrue by the way, Israel sold weapons to Iran and supported it with intelligence against Iraq after 1979
- dr00tb 7mo agoYou seriously believe Israel has conducted good-faith diplomatic endeavors for decades? A history of terrorattacks and extrajudicial killings in neighboring countries and even European[1] countries tell a different story. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
- UltraSane 7mo agoI think Israel is fighting for its survival against enemies that would absolutely destroy it if they could.
- gravisultra 7mo ago[flagged]
- tastyface 7mo agoIs continuing to apply extreme violence against these enemies likely to lead to a good result? What is the end state? I think we are fast approaching an era where weapons of mass destruction, by way of cheap killbot swarms, are trivially accessible to any government. Without radical diplomacy, I fear the entire Middle East -- Israel included -- is on a path to annihilation.
- steve-atx-7600 7mo agoI think it can be as simple as if you defeat your enemy first, they can’t defeat you or continue to threaten you.
- tastyface 7mo agoDefeating an enemy to the extent that they can't drive a truck full of AI killbots into a busy city center is an impossible task barring a scorched earth approach. And if that option is on the table -- killing millions to secure Israel's future -- then Israel seals its fate regardless. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Old advice that continues to ring true.
- Hikikomori 7mo agoIsrael killed Irans negotiators just last year. How can you be this deluded.
- spaghetdefects 7mo agoSince its inception, Israel has waged war and acts of terror on all of its neighbors (and much of the rest of the world).
- Spooky23 7mo agoArrogance, and using war to avoid consequences for personal bad behavior of the leader.
- glob_roman 7mo ago"Iran is close to nuclear device, diplomacy doesn't work, should we attack?" -"no, we don't have enough interceptors. let them become nuclear." That's what your logic sounds like
- wolvoleo 7mo agoDiplomacy did work, they stopped and had regular IAEA inspections.
- palmotea 7mo ago> Maybe it's just me, but if I were in such a suboptimal defensive materiel position, I would try diplomacy first. Such a nice thought. I wonder why they didn't do it? They must just be a bad, warmongering people. Oh wait, almost forgot... > Iran and Israel have maintained no diplomatic relations since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, and their relationship has been characterized by hostility ever since. Originally, relations were relatively cordial during the first three decades of Israeli independence, and saw close partnership between the two countries. However, following the revolution, Iran adopted the elimination of Israel as a Jewish state as a core component of its foreign policy.[1] The Iranian government refuses to recognize Israel’s legitimacy as a state, calling for its destruction. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_relations)
- themafia 7mo ago> I wonder why they didn't do it? "We tried nothing and it didn't work." > They must just be a bad, warmongering people. Oh wait, the other side is though, so that justifies everything. Convenient. > The Iranian government Yet when you drill down to actual public opinion the picture is more complicated. It's almost as if you tried something you could have a measurable impact there. Political pressure has been known to change regime positions before. You might even consider showing Palestine some extremely inexpensive good will as a softening gesture towards opening dialog directly with Iran. The great part of diplomacy is you can actually say the quiet part out loud without shame as you work towards peace. "We're changing our policy on Palestine as a means of opening dialog with Iran." Now you have international pressure on your side as well.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- thrance 7mo agoThe nuclear agreements with Iran worked very well, Iran followed them and there was peace. Then Trump unilateraly decided they weren't good enough anymore, refused Iran's requests to negotiate new ones, and joined Israel in their forever war against muslims in the goal of establishing a "Greater Israel". The joint US-Israeli venture is the sole aggressor in this war, that much is clear to everyone not completely brainwashed.
- mhb 7mo agoI stopped reading at "neighbor".