6 ms·

Everyone says that they value directness, and from what I can tell the vast majority of people actually don't. For example, I had a job interview a couple year

• andrewflnr 7mo ago
  A passive-aggressive interview "question" is a hilariously bad example of "directness". Nah dude, you were just a jerk.
  • tombert 7mo ago
    Probably. I would argue that showing up extremely late for an interview that you scheduled is considerably more jerk-ish. It also wasn’t passive aggressive, or at least it wasn’t intended to be. I actually wanted to know if that was just a thing that was common in the company so I could plan accordingly.
    • bibabaloo 7mo ago
      Asking that question just signals that you don't obey social cues. Most hiring managers won't like this, as they don't want to be responsible for hiring someone volatile like this. I think the only place you could get away with this is if you're interviewing with a C-Suite member who has nobody to answer to.
    • duskdozer 7mo ago
      Saying something like "Actually, I felt it was unprofessional and disrespectful to not have the interview start at the agreed-upon time" would also be direct, no? The way it's written sounds way more inflammatory.
      • tombert 7mo ago
        I am afraid I don’t see how that is significantly different than what I said.
        • deleted 7mo ago
          [deleted]
    • ggggffggggg 7mo ago
      Didn’t your momma teach you that two wrongs don’t make a right?? If someone is a jerk to you, and then you’re a jerk to them… you’re still a jerk.
      • tombert 7mo ago
        I do not concede that what I did was “wrong”. Pointing out something that was objectively douchy isn’t “wrong”. Yes I was a little snarky, and maybe I am a “jerk”, but considering that this person was happy to just waste my time like it was nothing I do think he was entitled to a little embarrassment.
        • rkomorn 7mo ago
          > I do think he was entitled to a little embarrassment This is exactly the kind of signal that would make me not want to hire someone. Tit-for-tat? Spite? No thanks.
          • tombert 7mo ago
            “Tit for tat” and “spite” feel like they are very strong words for what amounted to a justified smartass comment. If I had shown up fifteen minutes late for the interview I wouldn’t have gotten an offer and the interviewer might have made a comment about it during the interview and people generally wouldn’t call them an asshole for it.
            • rkomorn 7mo ago
              Yes, the fact that you don't see a problem with saying "he deserved it" as justification is the signal not to hire.
              • tombert 7mo ago
                The fact that you only want to hire workers who won’t call you out when they feel like they have been disrespected is a great way to breed a team of people who resent you. Regardless, you kind of proved what I was trying to say. Most people don’t actually want directness. The fact that when I was direct with someone you’re treating it like some mafioso retribution is telling.
• userbinator 7mo ago
  Presumably the rest of the company operates like that too, so you were indeed not a good culture fit.
  • tombert 7mo ago
    I'm not sure that I'm a "culture fit" for most companies. I should probably start buying lottery tickets instead.
    • rendall 7mo ago
      FWIW if I were the interviewer, I would have green-flagged you as a must hire.
    • InsideOutSanta 7mo ago
      "Culture fit" is an euphemism for "did the interviewer like you?" If most interviewers don't like you, that's something for you to think about. It's not necessarily bad, if you have a very specific personality that most people find disagreeable, then it's a good idea to look out for companies that cater to your personality, and where you will fit in. But it is something to think about.
      • tombert 7mo ago
        I think most people generally like me well enough, I just have a low tolerance for certain bits of corporate hypocrisy.
• gib444 7mo ago
  Mm they didn't really mean /any/ question, and weren't inviting directness. Just like "hi how are you" from a stranger isn't an invitation to respond that your cat just died and your transmission needs replacing Of course they didn't want to move forward. That's what you had decided/wanted though right? I can't imagine you hoping for any other outcome with that kind of question and follow up?
  • tombert 7mo ago
    > That's what you had decided/wanted though right? I can't imagine you hoping for any other outcome with that kind of question and follow up? The job paid really well so a small part of me still wanted to move forward, but I will admit I was pretty annoyed. I should provide a bit of context; the recruiter that the company “valued directness” on their copypasted job description. Regardless, if you show up late halfway through an interview that you scheduled, you shouldn’t be surprised when people are irritated with you.
    • retsibsi 7mo ago
      I'm not going to pretend I'm great at reading social situations, but I think your approach in this story would have annoyed 99% of interviewers, even if they genuinely valued directness. If they'd asked for feedback on the interview process, then sure, they'd be a hypocrite if they claimed to value directness but got mad when you told them honestly that you were bothered by their lateness. But when they ask for questions, they're not inviting criticism, and framing the criticism as a question is always going to come across as passive aggressive. (edit: Or maybe 'snarky' is a better word here, as you did follow it up with a direct criticism, so 'passive aggressive' might not be quite right.)
      • tombert 7mo ago
        Being annoyed is fine but I would argue that they should deal with it if they’re going to make me waste half the interview time sitting around. I’ll admit to a bit of douchiness on my end but I think they should have understood the snarkiness in this situation if they value directness.
• EliRivers 7mo ago
  "Everyone says that they value directness, and from what I can tell the vast majority of people actually don't." Well sure, of course we do. We (or at least, a lot of the readers of this who live in a US and similar economic and social system) have learned that it is virtuous and correct to say we value directness. But that's where it stops; it's just a thing that is right to say. Part of the current social interaction protocol. It's then widely understood that many interactions should not be hyper-direct. What you have observed - people saying they value directness and then not exhibiting it - is the expected behaviour. This isn't a bug.
• dwroberts 7mo ago
  Calling that out to that persons face, in that moment, is also inappropriate and rude. You can give that feedback some other time.
  • tombert 7mo ago
    It’s actually not “inappropriate”. Are you saying that instead of directly pointing out something that really bothered me, I should instead of reported him to someone higher up? Should I have bitched on Glassdoor? Oh, I guess I could have complained to the to recruiter where there is a zero percent chance that my complaint actually gets sent to them. It’s “rude” in that I embarrassed the person for a minute, but it’s not like I went and tattled to their higher-up, or was out for blood or anything. If they’re going to waste half the interview then they can fucking deal with being embarrassed for a few minutes.
    • dwroberts 7mo ago
      I think it is inappropriate in an interview situation 100%. If you can’t hold your tongue on some slight discomfort or perhaps talk about in a more diplomatic way (eg not singling out the specific person but rather just stating your upset at the interview being delayed) how are you going to react if clients/customers make you uncomfortable on conference calls? Are you going to be tactful and polite, or are you going to be direct and rude to them? Obviously I don’t know the role you were going for etc. this is just an example, but I think doing this gives a bad impression that goes beyond just whether that specific person was irritated for you calling them on their lateness
      • tombert 7mo ago
        No, it really isn’t inappropriate. The listing that the recruiter sent me said that they “value directness”. If I had shown up fifteen minutes late for the interview they would likely not make an offer, and if they had called me out for being late then no one would call them an asshole.
    • mayhemducks 7mo ago
• tmoertel 7mo ago
  Quick question: When the interviewer arrived late, did he start by apologizing?
  • tombert 7mo ago
    He actually did not! He just proceeded like it was nothing.
    • mayhemducks 7mo ago
      Because it was. Was probably this person's 10th interview of the day. They probably only need the simplest of infractions to weed someone out given the absurd volume of applications they receive.
      • tombert 7mo ago
        If I had shown up fifteen minutes late for the interview then they likely wouldn’t make an offer and they likely would have called it out during the interview. No one seems to call out companies when they do this shit. They wouldn’t care if I had a really bad day beforehand, and they certainly wouldn’t assume that I had a good excuse for it.
      • tmoertel 7mo ago
        > Because [arriving 15 minutes late to a 30-minute interview] was [nothing]. I'd expect over 95% of both interviewers and interviewees to say that arriving 15 minutes late to a 30-minute interview is very much not nothing; it's a serious breach of what is expected – on both sides of the interview. If you show up late for an interview, no matter which side of the table you're on, you ought to apologize and, if you're more than a few minutes late, have a good explanation. To do anything less signals that you are an unreliable person. And, when you are representing a company, it makes the company look like it's run by people who don't even understand how to do something as simple as show up on time. It suggests that one of the company's unspoken core values is Dysfunction.