5 ms·

8 GB RAM and 6/10 "respectable" repairability.

nar001 7mo ago
RAM has no bearing on repairability? And yes, sure stuff is soldered to the motherboard, but everything is basically modular outside of it, you can replace every big part pretty easily, and no glue, even for the battery
- mylies43 7mo ago
  The RAM being soldered is a hit against repair ability, you can't expand it or if the ram has issues you can't replace it, you will just be forced to throw out the entire machine. What else is modular here anyways? Can I swap out the CPU, the screen, the keyboard, ports...anything?
  - wtallis 7mo ago
    Repairability and upgradability aren't quite the same concept.
  - colechristensen 7mo ago
    Soldering RAM isn't for compact size or cost or to keep you from upgrading, it's for speed. Soldered RAM can be physically closer with a faster bus than removable RAM.
    - okanat 7mo ago
      With old style DIMMs I can understand this excuse, with LPCAMM though, it doesn't fly.
      - dmitrygr 7mo ago
        Yes it does. LPCAMM path is still dozens of millimeters. Soldered on is one mm or less.
        josephg 7mo ago
        Yep. Even the framework seems to be moving to soldered on ram.
        Dylan16807 7mo ago
        If you mean the desktop, there must have been something wrong with that AMD chip. Existing designs with LPCAMM are just as fast.
        okanat 7mo ago
        Yeah, I got downvoted but the people arguing against have no idea of the speeds of the standards. LPCAMM2 offers the same exact speeds as LPDDR5x. It is dumb as a consumer to just accept soldering as an excuse from tech companies.
    - heavyset_go 7mo ago
      It's for power efficiency
  - nolist_policy 7mo ago
    Neo's RAM is Package on Package, it is literally soldered on top of the A18. In fact, Neo's Mainboard is in the same ballpark as a Desktop RAM DIMM, which means replacing the whole Mainboard is in the same as replacing the RAM on a Desktop from an environmental perspective.
    - philistine 7mo ago
      That Neo board is so tiny!
  - philistine 7mo ago
    Why are the Thinkpads getting 10/10 when the math coprocessor can’t be replaced and the N2 cache is inside the CPU as well? We culturally decide what parts can or cannot be replaced. Apple solders their RAM on the CPU for performance reasons. It’s coming to PCs at some point, if they ever decide to compete on performance ever again.
    - bean469 7mo ago
      > Apple solders their RAM on the CPU for performance reasons. It’s coming to PCs at some point, if they ever decide to compete on performance ever again. Are you assuming that the PCs do not compete with Macs for performance? People built Hackintoshes that are more powerful than the highest spec Mac Pro - and for cheaper, too
      - philistine 7mo ago
        On laptops, which is something between 80-90% of the market for computers, you'd be hard pressed to find a laptop that's competitive with Apple. Can you find a laptop chip that's as good as the M5 Max? Or the M3 Max for that matter. Laptop PCs are starting to lag behind Apple, just like the fastest Android phones have a hard time competing with three year old iPhones. Of course on the desktop, you can just pump more power into a disappointing x86 chip to eke out better perf but that market is marginal and Apple basically ignores it. Laptops might not be a problem for you specifically but this situation, where a company has advantages but is inadequate for the needs of the market, is how so many chip manufacturers just disappeared in the 90s.
        bean469 7mo ago
        > Can you find a laptop chip that's as good as the M5 Max? Or the M3 Max for that matter. Most people, including me, do not need the most powerful chip. Most of what 99% of laptop users do does not require the SOTA. The only task for a laptop that I have that requires more compute is gaming. My 3 year old laptop still performs much better in games compared to the M5 Max, according to benchmarks for the games that I play, not to mention the compatibility advantages > Of course on the desktop, you can just pump more power into a disappointing x86 chip to eke out better perf but that market is marginal and Apple basically ignores it Apple has desktop computers for sale, they do not ignore the market. The latest Mac Mini is actually a great value for the money, especially for businesses
- herbst 7mo ago
  [flagged]
jxdxbx 7mo ago
I have a Neo and 16GB Thinkpad and the Neo smokes it.
- nextos 7mo ago
  What configuration on the ThinkPad?
DauntingPear7 7mo ago
Have you owned an M-series MacBook?

RAM has no bearing on repairability? And yes, sure stuff is soldered to the motherboard, but everything is basically modular outside of it, you can replace every big part pretty easily, and no glue, even for the battery

mylies43 7mo ago
The RAM being soldered is a hit against repair ability, you can't expand it or if the ram has issues you can't replace it, you will just be forced to throw out the entire machine. What else is modular here anyways? Can I swap out the CPU, the screen, the keyboard, ports...anything?
- wtallis 7mo ago
  Repairability and upgradability aren't quite the same concept.
- colechristensen 7mo ago
  Soldering RAM isn't for compact size or cost or to keep you from upgrading, it's for speed. Soldered RAM can be physically closer with a faster bus than removable RAM.
  - okanat 7mo ago
    With old style DIMMs I can understand this excuse, with LPCAMM though, it doesn't fly.
    - dmitrygr 7mo ago
      Yes it does. LPCAMM path is still dozens of millimeters. Soldered on is one mm or less.
      - josephg 7mo ago
        Yep. Even the framework seems to be moving to soldered on ram.
        Dylan16807 7mo ago
        If you mean the desktop, there must have been something wrong with that AMD chip. Existing designs with LPCAMM are just as fast.
        okanat 7mo ago
        Yeah, I got downvoted but the people arguing against have no idea of the speeds of the standards. LPCAMM2 offers the same exact speeds as LPDDR5x. It is dumb as a consumer to just accept soldering as an excuse from tech companies.
  - heavyset_go 7mo ago
    It's for power efficiency
- nolist_policy 7mo ago
  Neo's RAM is Package on Package, it is literally soldered on top of the A18. In fact, Neo's Mainboard is in the same ballpark as a Desktop RAM DIMM, which means replacing the whole Mainboard is in the same as replacing the RAM on a Desktop from an environmental perspective.
  - philistine 7mo ago
    That Neo board is so tiny!
- philistine 7mo ago
  Why are the Thinkpads getting 10/10 when the math coprocessor can’t be replaced and the N2 cache is inside the CPU as well? We culturally decide what parts can or cannot be replaced. Apple solders their RAM on the CPU for performance reasons. It’s coming to PCs at some point, if they ever decide to compete on performance ever again.
  - bean469 7mo ago
    > Apple solders their RAM on the CPU for performance reasons. It’s coming to PCs at some point, if they ever decide to compete on performance ever again. Are you assuming that the PCs do not compete with Macs for performance? People built Hackintoshes that are more powerful than the highest spec Mac Pro - and for cheaper, too
    - philistine 7mo ago
      On laptops, which is something between 80-90% of the market for computers, you'd be hard pressed to find a laptop that's competitive with Apple. Can you find a laptop chip that's as good as the M5 Max? Or the M3 Max for that matter. Laptop PCs are starting to lag behind Apple, just like the fastest Android phones have a hard time competing with three year old iPhones. Of course on the desktop, you can just pump more power into a disappointing x86 chip to eke out better perf but that market is marginal and Apple basically ignores it. Laptops might not be a problem for you specifically but this situation, where a company has advantages but is inadequate for the needs of the market, is how so many chip manufacturers just disappeared in the 90s.
      - bean469 7mo ago
        > Can you find a laptop chip that's as good as the M5 Max? Or the M3 Max for that matter. Most people, including me, do not need the most powerful chip. Most of what 99% of laptop users do does not require the SOTA. The only task for a laptop that I have that requires more compute is gaming. My 3 year old laptop still performs much better in games compared to the M5 Max, according to benchmarks for the games that I play, not to mention the compatibility advantages > Of course on the desktop, you can just pump more power into a disappointing x86 chip to eke out better perf but that market is marginal and Apple basically ignores it Apple has desktop computers for sale, they do not ignore the market. The latest Mac Mini is actually a great value for the money, especially for businesses
herbst 7mo ago
[flagged]

jxdxbx 7mo ago

I have a Neo and 16GB Thinkpad and the Neo smokes it.

nextos 7mo ago
What configuration on the ThinkPad?

DauntingPear7 7mo ago

Have you owned an M-series MacBook?