3 ms·

Was that in doubt?

by donatj 7mo ago

Was that in doubt?

crazysim 7mo ago
Yeah. It's the first production Mac using an A-chip and is a Mac that has had many things cut out for savings. The question is did Apple feature cut required functionality.
- nsxwolf 7mo ago
  The first Apple Silicon developer boxes were Mac Minis with A series chips so I wouldn’t have expected any issues.
  - crazysim 7mo ago
    That's why I chose to specifically mention production. The developer boxes were to get macOS native stuff going but virtualization was not a priority.
  - bydo 7mo ago
    The A12Z in the developer transition kit didn't support hardware virtualization.
  - MBCook 7mo ago
    But they also had iPad chips, not iPhone.
xeromal 7mo ago
It uses the iphone processor (which I think still might be one of those Mchips?) so I think it was ok to be unsure.
- jayd16 7mo ago
  The odds of it not running at all were low but the performance is the real factor for whether it can _practically_ run a windows VM.
- MBCook 7mo ago
  The M line was derived from the A line in the phones, and the individual cores are generally the same (though not in the same year). Counts, accelerators, other stuff on package/die is custom. I think it was a fair question too. Even if things should be capable it was always possible the feature would be disabled in hardware or software somehow. And with iPhones never running VMs as far as I know, we didn’t know if it was capable at all.
  - SpecialistK 7mo ago
    UTM seems to make VMs available on iOS (with App Store limitations) although I've only used it on Mac: https://docs.getutm.app/ https://docs.getutm.app/
    - MBCook 7mo ago
      I thought it was emulating everything like QEMU, not using virtualization hardware like you normally would on a computer.
      - SpecialistK 7mo ago
        You might be right. QEMU doesn't always make clear when you're running emulated or virtualized.
Aurornis 7mo ago
Virtualization requires specific hardware support to be performant. There are ways to do complete software emulation of a virtual machine but it would be so slow that nobody would want to use it. This is them confirming that the CPU has enough virtualization support that they can virtualize rather than emulate the guest OS

Was that in doubt?

by donatj 7mo ago

Was that in doubt?

Yeah. It's the first production Mac using an A-chip and is a Mac that has had many things cut out for savings. The question is did Apple feature cut required functionality.

nsxwolf 7mo ago
The first Apple Silicon developer boxes were Mac Minis with A series chips so I wouldn’t have expected any issues.
- crazysim 7mo ago
  That's why I chose to specifically mention production. The developer boxes were to get macOS native stuff going but virtualization was not a priority.
- bydo 7mo ago
  The A12Z in the developer transition kit didn't support hardware virtualization.
- MBCook 7mo ago
  But they also had iPad chips, not iPhone.

xeromal 7mo ago

It uses the iphone processor (which I think still might be one of those Mchips?) so I think it was ok to be unsure.

jayd16 7mo ago
The odds of it not running at all were low but the performance is the real factor for whether it can _practically_ run a windows VM.
MBCook 7mo ago
The M line was derived from the A line in the phones, and the individual cores are generally the same (though not in the same year). Counts, accelerators, other stuff on package/die is custom. I think it was a fair question too. Even if things should be capable it was always possible the feature would be disabled in hardware or software somehow. And with iPhones never running VMs as far as I know, we didn’t know if it was capable at all.
- SpecialistK 7mo ago
  UTM seems to make VMs available on iOS (with App Store limitations) although I've only used it on Mac: https://docs.getutm.app/ https://docs.getutm.app/
  - MBCook 7mo ago
    I thought it was emulating everything like QEMU, not using virtualization hardware like you normally would on a computer.
    - SpecialistK 7mo ago
      You might be right. QEMU doesn't always make clear when you're running emulated or virtualized.

Aurornis 7mo ago

Virtualization requires specific hardware support to be performant. There are ways to do complete software emulation of a virtual machine but it would be so slow that nobody would want to use it. This is them confirming that the CPU has enough virtualization support that they can virtualize rather than emulate the guest OS