9 ms·

Why you would want to program at fifty (or any other age)

41 points by trucious 14y ago

chmike 14y ago
I'm fifty and full time programmer. What the OP is missing is that while we have much more experience and are thus wiser on some aspect, our brain is much less agile to adapt and learn new things. If we would learn faster, we would also forget faster and loose the power of experience. Any task where our experience is of value would be satisfying for me to do. Unfortunately we have all these stupid kids around in our way thinking they know it all better than us. The worst is the regression of html, xml and javascript we are forced to use but are shit. All the good thing of "old" languages are lost. Note that the languages will change, but the fundamental concepts and principles remain the same.
- kator 14y ago
  LOL I'm 46 and just got a gig writing in C again and I love it. I stay current, I am fluent in Python, Perl, PHP, C++, Java, Javascript etc. But it has been nice returning to a nice warm pile of C code. Now before everyone piles on to tell me how horrible C is realize this, in our environment we're handling 500,000 queries per second and have under 100ms to complete a round-trip transaction. Yes you can attempt that in Java with 20x the servers. Sometimes you just need good old fashioned low level languages to eek out every penny of low-latency power from your servers. (I can already hear the arguments about Elang, Haskel or whatever is popular this week). @chmike Personally I still learn very rapidly and when I integrate it with past experience it's very powerful. I make the joke that I'm like a diesel engine, one crank is equal to 10x the lawn mowers some younger programmers are using. That said I love learning new stuff from the younger crowd, I'm convinced they keep me young because they inspire me and I try harder to keep up while sharing with them the mistakes I've made so they hopefully avoid a couple of them! :-)
  - jfaucett 14y ago
    "before everyone piles on to tell me how horrible C" Well, I wouldn't say its horrible :) I suppose I'm a "kid" here at 25, but I've been programming in c since I really was a kid and I love it. And even though people are always ranting about some other new awesome languge, fact is, if you need to program a driver, or basically do anything thats really os/hardware programming, c is still by far the best choice out there.
  - LnxPrgr3 14y ago
    Glorified PDP-11 assembler or not, C is still how a lot of work gets done… a lot of the work I find the most exciting, personally, where performance is a critical feature and not something to be left to chance. Not to mention all the low-level work that goes into making all these high-level languages run. It's 7am on a Saturday and I've been up benchmarking and optimizing on my free time. I figure it keeps that part of my mind sharp so it's ready when I need it. And besides, it's actually fun! "Creator's machismo" and "intellectual exercise" are definitely both reasons I'm at this.
  - chmike 14y ago
    I'm glad you perceived the humor in my comment. Sorry for the bad word.
    - kator 14y ago
      LOL well if you crave C development there is plenty of room on our team.. :-) I am doing a lot of python too but quite a bit of C and some C++ (glue code for some 3rd party API's mainly for our C stuff)
  - tsahyt 14y ago
    > ... how horrible C is ... C isn't horrible at all. I'm one of those guys who find beauty in simplicity, so I consider C a very beautiful language. It's simple, efficient and extremely powerful. It's easy to learn but hard to master. All in all it's really all I look for in a programming language. What I find particularly great about writing C code is that it keeps reminding me that programming is really a craft. I'm exaggerating a bit, but it feels like putting together something step by step, taking care of all the details, much like a clockmaker would, to produce an end result that works really well. Sure, it is probably more demanding than more modern languages but to me it's more rewarding as well.
  - fossuser 14y ago
    Why C as opposed to C++? I'd love to know because my current understanding is that C++ has the same performance as C, but includes the STL which prevents you from having to reimplement more convenient data structures that handle memory nicely (like vectors) yourself. The ability to create classes/objects is nice too and the language doesn't take away any of the freedom you're given in C either. Am I missing something about it? Is it just more familiarity with the older language that makes it more comfortable?
    - wglb 14y ago
      For the same code, C++ is generally measurably slower. One reason is how exceptions, which are not optional, are handled at run time. Having written some seriously high-throughput low-latency code in C++, you have to turn on bunches of compile flags (e.g., ignore exceptions) to get the best out of it.
    - ibisum 14y ago
      ""Am I missing something about it? Is it just more familiarity with the older language that makes it more comfortable?"" Yes, I would say - you did miss something. C++ does come with the STL, and "saves you" from having to bring-your-own/be responsible for a package of well-tested basics, it is true. But, then again, if you have been coding C long enough, probably there is a lot of code you've got in your suite that represents powers beyond the STL. I've got a small hashlib/assoc-array header or two which, fundamentally, has been all I've needed to write performant code on whatever subject my applications are addressing. I agree that there should be a 'layer' by which programmers are protected from systems-level thinking, but then again I think in this day and age, it is a good thing to delete cruft, effective C management (i.e. you know your libs because you also wrote them, and so on..) allows for very nicely maintainable code. Even in this day and age of "point phone at t-shirt to install web 2.x.x" style deployment, I am glad to have good C chops. Still.
  - varelse 14y ago
    Absolutely! The key is staying current and curious. I'm around your age and I've seen a lot of my peers drop out by transitioning to management and/or finding other priorities in life such as family or hobbies. The one thing I've found I need as I age is to exercise more and more just to keep my energy level up. I can do all-nighters with the youngest of them (but maybe that's genetic because my mom's still doing them too and she's pushing 80), but I pay a horrible price if I get out of shape. And before someone objects, I actually like the occasional all-night binge hackathon - all things in moderation - I just bring better quality food than pizza and coke these days.
  - ibisum 14y ago
    42 here, checking in, also been recently able to support myself quite well with the good ol' C chops, for some reason its just still quite a good way to get things done, even in the floaty-boaty layers of the FOSS/newlang bleeding edge hegemony/cultural-psychosis, underneath a lot of it, if not nearly all, is still some C-lib being faithfully hammered on. Love that.
- crag 14y ago
  "The worst is the regression of html, xml and javascript we are forced to use.." History repeats itself. Full screen apps, to me are a throw back to the 80's (before Windows and the Mac); and "Cloud Services" sounds awfully like time sharing to me; Centralized access point for distributed data reminds me of running apps on the old mainframes; Time Machine - real time TMS (backing up to tape in real time) - the list goes on and on. All the kids thinking they invented new ways to share and use data. I feel like I'm knocking on a door reminding them that none of this is new. It's just been re-branded.
bcambel 14y ago
A great wisdom: "You don’t match your age to your job. You match your motivations to your job."[From the article]
- gorbachev 14y ago
  This is exactly why I'm a programmer. I've been in jobs that I have no motivation for. It's a bad deal for me, and my employer, but especially for me in terms of opportunity costs.
arbuge 14y ago
Probably also keeps the risk of Alzheimer's down - mental stimulation is believed to have that effect. http://www.helpguide.org/elder/alzheimers_prevention_slowing_down_treatment.htm http://www.helpguide.org/elder/alzheimers_prevention_slowing...
- tsahyt 14y ago
  Sounds right, yes. Most elderly people I've met who still were mentally fit have been using their heads their entire life. Obviously this is anecdotal but I think it's just like a workout for your brain in order to keep in shape, just as being physically active keeps your body fit.
felanthropop 14y ago
Please change the font. The word "meme" looks like "mcmc". As a developer that is much closer to 50 than many here are, I can say that it's a crapshoot whether I will be programming when I'm 50. I tired of it after a handful of years, but decided to stay on with it because I can't afford the paycut, and am still am going with it, getting close to 15 years now. But everyday, and I've tried another employer, I still can't stand it. I enjoy the freedom and art and creativeness, but when things don't work, which happens a lot, I waste time on it and feel stupid and depressed. Feeling smart 1% of the time and stupid 99% of the time and worrying about whether you will be able to continue it without getting fired is a horrible way to live. It has affected my health, my attitude, and makes me drink more than I should at times. But, we justify this with "we are making a good living". Common things I think about doing are (1) buying and running a bar, but then I would have to deal with the alcoholics, prostitution, drugs, and other crap that goes with it (not worth it) and would feel that I was contributing to an evil in our society even though I love beer and good times, (2) selling old computer equipment and games (there is little money here, and I'm not a hardware expert, so screw that), (3) getting involved with my church (but they don't need more IT, I'm a developer anyway not IT, and I have no idea what else I have to offer), (4) helping humanity get into space (but I have little to offer there also), (5) developing Indie games (which I've done in the past to some extent, but I think that writing games just means that people will waste time away from their family and solving problems playing them), (6) going to work for a non-profit development group (but I'm a conservative, and I can't work with tree-huggers even if I have a very liberal opinion that software should be free or open source, which I realize is not the same). So instead, I take care of my family.
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  The pain in programming is that we have this 21st-century superpower but the only way we can make money is to suit 19th-century industrial masters who don't understand what's possible with technology. They just want us to point our magical tech wands at their existing machines and make them run faster. If we do this kind of thing for too long (and it's the only way to get a reliable income) we lose that "superpower" and become ordinary due to creative atrophy. Then we're fired and replaced by young idiots who think the all-nighters and low autonomy are paving the way to millions, and who will therefore tolerate more bullshit because they haven't seen yet that all the suffering leads nowhere. Markets and capitalism are supposed to fix this fundamental problem (archaic, stupid leadership) by reallocating resources where they can be best put to use, by this isn't a problem that mere computation (as in a market) can solve. The problem is that power is held by the wrong fucking people, most of whom are total imbeciles with no vision, and the runaway feedback loop where power and wealth beget same is too far gone for talent to break in and change things. US-style corporate capitalism is an outright disaster but, while EU-style socialism makes life suck a lot less for average people, it doesn't solve the underlying problem either. Eventually, the discrepancy between what's possible with technical creativity and what's being actually done out there will reach a critical point and, like an insulator breakdown, sudden and powerful change will happen. I have absolutely no idea when that will happen, though. We have to purge and recreate the whole industrial ecosystem in order to get to the kind of world that people like you and me want-- a world driven by creativity and challenging problems rather than subordination and nonsense.
radicalbyte 14y ago
A colleague of mine who is 62 has, in 6 months, become incredibly effective in C#. He has learnt it faster, and his output is better than the 24 year olds who had to make the same switch. He has been there and done it all: punch cards, assembly, VB6, managed a development team and worked for 20 years as a Project Manager. He told me a few weeks ago that he never wants to retire. Work less - sure - but he doesn't want to stop. And with an ability like his, he won't need to. In 30 years, when I'm 62, I want to be like him :)
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  I don't think programmers necessarily decline with age. With the ones who keep their curiosity about them, I don't see it-- not even at 50 or 60. The ones who lose their curiosity and creativity start declining much earlier than that. The problem older programmers face is that the world as-is still defines engineering as a subordinate role, and people know from experience that it usually ends badly when an older person has a younger boss. Maybe it "shouldn't matter" in some PC fiction world, but in the real world we actually inhabit where people are primates, it matters a lot. Just as tall women and short men are "diagonalized out" by being contrary to society's expectations regarding height in coupling-- there are much more politically incorrect diagonalizations in dating, but I'll side-step them-- young people don't often get to manage (even if they could) and old people are disqualified for subordinate roles. The business world invented advisory positions for this purpose (the semi-retired older employee is effectively non-subordinate, because he doesn't need the job to retain an income, but isn't a full-time executive). That's how it finds a use for active older people who are ineligible (often because they just don't want it) for full-time executive positions but have extremely valuable experience and relationships. Advisory positions keep skilled older people from being diagonalized out by the traditional subordination model. What's needed to fix this problem is for engineering to become closer to an advisory relationship than a subordinate one. If engineers had the level of autonomy seen at places like Github and Valve, age wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. Right now, people look at a 55-year-old code monkey as a chump-- he's that old and he's still taking orders? But there is absolutely no reason why a 55-year-old can't program; it's the subordinate context rather than the work that is the problem.
- 14y ago
hmart 14y ago
I think it's different for people that started to program at young age compared with those who started late. Also compare the professional 9to5 developer with the academic, scientific or entrepreneur programmer. Sure I hope to be programming at fifty because programming isn't my job, it's my joy.
- hmart 14y ago
  for the sake of the discussion : Ask HN: Is 36 too late to start into programming? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1444486 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1444486
xradionut 14y ago
Creative programming at times can give me pleasure that's only equaled by a really good workout or really good sex.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
jonjacky 14y ago
Consider Peter Neumann, who has been hacking since the early 1950s. At age 80, he is beginning work on the 5-year DARPA-funded Clean Slate project to "build something new from the bottom up" to respond to security problems. Recent HN posts link to NY Times stories: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4714328 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4714328 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4722781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4722781
cafard 14y ago
I am well over 50. It has been a while since I took up a wholly new programming language, but I keep my hand in with quite a few. I tend to vote with radicalbyte's friend--being able to choose how much and when to work would be nice, but getting out of the house and working is definitely a good thing.
orionblastar 14y ago
I am 44 years old and on disability. I still try to write programs, but I write small ones. Due to a mental illness and a stroke, my abilities are limited, and I cannot work a job, but I keep on trying.
JAYVIX 14y ago
In my opinion, you have a lot to offer. 1) From a user experience / marketing standpoint - (target demo's have a better grasp of their own likes and "dislikes" when engaging an application.) - if one of the targeted demo. There are "discoveries" that usually happen through conversation. A mature programmer can provide an entrepreneur perspective or another idea to improve the product due to the architecture of other programs (built in the past). 2) Depending on the Programmer; the older way of training code revolved around meticulous detail) - also very helpful sometimes in avoiding bugs.

41 points by trucious 14y ago

I'm fifty and full time programmer. What the OP is missing is that while we have much more experience and are thus wiser on some aspect, our brain is much less agile to adapt and learn new things. If we would learn faster, we would also forget faster and loose the power of experience. Any task where our experience is of value would be satisfying for me to do. Unfortunately we have all these stupid kids around in our way thinking they know it all better than us. The worst is the regression of html, xml and javascript we are forced to use but are shit. All the good thing of "old" languages are lost. Note that the languages will change, but the fundamental concepts and principles remain the same.

kator 14y ago
LOL I'm 46 and just got a gig writing in C again and I love it. I stay current, I am fluent in Python, Perl, PHP, C++, Java, Javascript etc. But it has been nice returning to a nice warm pile of C code. Now before everyone piles on to tell me how horrible C is realize this, in our environment we're handling 500,000 queries per second and have under 100ms to complete a round-trip transaction. Yes you can attempt that in Java with 20x the servers. Sometimes you just need good old fashioned low level languages to eek out every penny of low-latency power from your servers. (I can already hear the arguments about Elang, Haskel or whatever is popular this week). @chmike Personally I still learn very rapidly and when I integrate it with past experience it's very powerful. I make the joke that I'm like a diesel engine, one crank is equal to 10x the lawn mowers some younger programmers are using. That said I love learning new stuff from the younger crowd, I'm convinced they keep me young because they inspire me and I try harder to keep up while sharing with them the mistakes I've made so they hopefully avoid a couple of them! :-)
- jfaucett 14y ago
  "before everyone piles on to tell me how horrible C" Well, I wouldn't say its horrible :) I suppose I'm a "kid" here at 25, but I've been programming in c since I really was a kid and I love it. And even though people are always ranting about some other new awesome languge, fact is, if you need to program a driver, or basically do anything thats really os/hardware programming, c is still by far the best choice out there.
- LnxPrgr3 14y ago
  Glorified PDP-11 assembler or not, C is still how a lot of work gets done… a lot of the work I find the most exciting, personally, where performance is a critical feature and not something to be left to chance. Not to mention all the low-level work that goes into making all these high-level languages run. It's 7am on a Saturday and I've been up benchmarking and optimizing on my free time. I figure it keeps that part of my mind sharp so it's ready when I need it. And besides, it's actually fun! "Creator's machismo" and "intellectual exercise" are definitely both reasons I'm at this.
- chmike 14y ago
  I'm glad you perceived the humor in my comment. Sorry for the bad word.
  - kator 14y ago
    LOL well if you crave C development there is plenty of room on our team.. :-) I am doing a lot of python too but quite a bit of C and some C++ (glue code for some 3rd party API's mainly for our C stuff)
- tsahyt 14y ago
  > ... how horrible C is ... C isn't horrible at all. I'm one of those guys who find beauty in simplicity, so I consider C a very beautiful language. It's simple, efficient and extremely powerful. It's easy to learn but hard to master. All in all it's really all I look for in a programming language. What I find particularly great about writing C code is that it keeps reminding me that programming is really a craft. I'm exaggerating a bit, but it feels like putting together something step by step, taking care of all the details, much like a clockmaker would, to produce an end result that works really well. Sure, it is probably more demanding than more modern languages but to me it's more rewarding as well.
- fossuser 14y ago
  Why C as opposed to C++? I'd love to know because my current understanding is that C++ has the same performance as C, but includes the STL which prevents you from having to reimplement more convenient data structures that handle memory nicely (like vectors) yourself. The ability to create classes/objects is nice too and the language doesn't take away any of the freedom you're given in C either. Am I missing something about it? Is it just more familiarity with the older language that makes it more comfortable?
  - wglb 14y ago
    For the same code, C++ is generally measurably slower. One reason is how exceptions, which are not optional, are handled at run time. Having written some seriously high-throughput low-latency code in C++, you have to turn on bunches of compile flags (e.g., ignore exceptions) to get the best out of it.
  - ibisum 14y ago
    ""Am I missing something about it? Is it just more familiarity with the older language that makes it more comfortable?"" Yes, I would say - you did miss something. C++ does come with the STL, and "saves you" from having to bring-your-own/be responsible for a package of well-tested basics, it is true. But, then again, if you have been coding C long enough, probably there is a lot of code you've got in your suite that represents powers beyond the STL. I've got a small hashlib/assoc-array header or two which, fundamentally, has been all I've needed to write performant code on whatever subject my applications are addressing. I agree that there should be a 'layer' by which programmers are protected from systems-level thinking, but then again I think in this day and age, it is a good thing to delete cruft, effective C management (i.e. you know your libs because you also wrote them, and so on..) allows for very nicely maintainable code. Even in this day and age of "point phone at t-shirt to install web 2.x.x" style deployment, I am glad to have good C chops. Still.
- varelse 14y ago
  Absolutely! The key is staying current and curious. I'm around your age and I've seen a lot of my peers drop out by transitioning to management and/or finding other priorities in life such as family or hobbies. The one thing I've found I need as I age is to exercise more and more just to keep my energy level up. I can do all-nighters with the youngest of them (but maybe that's genetic because my mom's still doing them too and she's pushing 80), but I pay a horrible price if I get out of shape. And before someone objects, I actually like the occasional all-night binge hackathon - all things in moderation - I just bring better quality food than pizza and coke these days.
- ibisum 14y ago
  42 here, checking in, also been recently able to support myself quite well with the good ol' C chops, for some reason its just still quite a good way to get things done, even in the floaty-boaty layers of the FOSS/newlang bleeding edge hegemony/cultural-psychosis, underneath a lot of it, if not nearly all, is still some C-lib being faithfully hammered on. Love that.
crag 14y ago
"The worst is the regression of html, xml and javascript we are forced to use.." History repeats itself. Full screen apps, to me are a throw back to the 80's (before Windows and the Mac); and "Cloud Services" sounds awfully like time sharing to me; Centralized access point for distributed data reminds me of running apps on the old mainframes; Time Machine - real time TMS (backing up to tape in real time) - the list goes on and on. All the kids thinking they invented new ways to share and use data. I feel like I'm knocking on a door reminding them that none of this is new. It's just been re-branded.

bcambel 14y ago

A great wisdom: "You don’t match your age to your job. You match your motivations to your job."[From the article]

gorbachev 14y ago
This is exactly why I'm a programmer. I've been in jobs that I have no motivation for. It's a bad deal for me, and my employer, but especially for me in terms of opportunity costs.

arbuge 14y ago

Probably also keeps the risk of Alzheimer's down - mental stimulation is believed to have that effect. http://www.helpguide.org/elder/alzheimers_prevention_slowing_down_treatment.htm http://www.helpguide.org/elder/alzheimers_prevention_slowing...

tsahyt 14y ago
Sounds right, yes. Most elderly people I've met who still were mentally fit have been using their heads their entire life. Obviously this is anecdotal but I think it's just like a workout for your brain in order to keep in shape, just as being physically active keeps your body fit.

felanthropop 14y ago

Please change the font. The word "meme" looks like "mcmc". As a developer that is much closer to 50 than many here are, I can say that it's a crapshoot whether I will be programming when I'm 50. I tired of it after a handful of years, but decided to stay on with it because I can't afford the paycut, and am still am going with it, getting close to 15 years now. But everyday, and I've tried another employer, I still can't stand it. I enjoy the freedom and art and creativeness, but when things don't work, which happens a lot, I waste time on it and feel stupid and depressed. Feeling smart 1% of the time and stupid 99% of the time and worrying about whether you will be able to continue it without getting fired is a horrible way to live. It has affected my health, my attitude, and makes me drink more than I should at times. But, we justify this with "we are making a good living". Common things I think about doing are (1) buying and running a bar, but then I would have to deal with the alcoholics, prostitution, drugs, and other crap that goes with it (not worth it) and would feel that I was contributing to an evil in our society even though I love beer and good times, (2) selling old computer equipment and games (there is little money here, and I'm not a hardware expert, so screw that), (3) getting involved with my church (but they don't need more IT, I'm a developer anyway not IT, and I have no idea what else I have to offer), (4) helping humanity get into space (but I have little to offer there also), (5) developing Indie games (which I've done in the past to some extent, but I think that writing games just means that people will waste time away from their family and solving problems playing them), (6) going to work for a non-profit development group (but I'm a conservative, and I can't work with tree-huggers even if I have a very liberal opinion that software should be free or open source, which I realize is not the same). So instead, I take care of my family.

michaelochurch 14y ago
The pain in programming is that we have this 21st-century superpower but the only way we can make money is to suit 19th-century industrial masters who don't understand what's possible with technology. They just want us to point our magical tech wands at their existing machines and make them run faster. If we do this kind of thing for too long (and it's the only way to get a reliable income) we lose that "superpower" and become ordinary due to creative atrophy. Then we're fired and replaced by young idiots who think the all-nighters and low autonomy are paving the way to millions, and who will therefore tolerate more bullshit because they haven't seen yet that all the suffering leads nowhere. Markets and capitalism are supposed to fix this fundamental problem (archaic, stupid leadership) by reallocating resources where they can be best put to use, by this isn't a problem that mere computation (as in a market) can solve. The problem is that power is held by the wrong fucking people, most of whom are total imbeciles with no vision, and the runaway feedback loop where power and wealth beget same is too far gone for talent to break in and change things. US-style corporate capitalism is an outright disaster but, while EU-style socialism makes life suck a lot less for average people, it doesn't solve the underlying problem either. Eventually, the discrepancy between what's possible with technical creativity and what's being actually done out there will reach a critical point and, like an insulator breakdown, sudden and powerful change will happen. I have absolutely no idea when that will happen, though. We have to purge and recreate the whole industrial ecosystem in order to get to the kind of world that people like you and me want-- a world driven by creativity and challenging problems rather than subordination and nonsense.

radicalbyte 14y ago

A colleague of mine who is 62 has, in 6 months, become incredibly effective in C#. He has learnt it faster, and his output is better than the 24 year olds who had to make the same switch. He has been there and done it all: punch cards, assembly, VB6, managed a development team and worked for 20 years as a Project Manager. He told me a few weeks ago that he never wants to retire. Work less - sure - but he doesn't want to stop. And with an ability like his, he won't need to. In 30 years, when I'm 62, I want to be like him :)

michaelochurch 14y ago
I don't think programmers necessarily decline with age. With the ones who keep their curiosity about them, I don't see it-- not even at 50 or 60. The ones who lose their curiosity and creativity start declining much earlier than that. The problem older programmers face is that the world as-is still defines engineering as a subordinate role, and people know from experience that it usually ends badly when an older person has a younger boss. Maybe it "shouldn't matter" in some PC fiction world, but in the real world we actually inhabit where people are primates, it matters a lot. Just as tall women and short men are "diagonalized out" by being contrary to society's expectations regarding height in coupling-- there are much more politically incorrect diagonalizations in dating, but I'll side-step them-- young people don't often get to manage (even if they could) and old people are disqualified for subordinate roles. The business world invented advisory positions for this purpose (the semi-retired older employee is effectively non-subordinate, because he doesn't need the job to retain an income, but isn't a full-time executive). That's how it finds a use for active older people who are ineligible (often because they just don't want it) for full-time executive positions but have extremely valuable experience and relationships. Advisory positions keep skilled older people from being diagonalized out by the traditional subordination model. What's needed to fix this problem is for engineering to become closer to an advisory relationship than a subordinate one. If engineers had the level of autonomy seen at places like Github and Valve, age wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue. Right now, people look at a 55-year-old code monkey as a chump-- he's that old and he's still taking orders? But there is absolutely no reason why a 55-year-old can't program; it's the subordinate context rather than the work that is the problem.
14y ago

hmart 14y ago

I think it's different for people that started to program at young age compared with those who started late. Also compare the professional 9to5 developer with the academic, scientific or entrepreneur programmer. Sure I hope to be programming at fifty because programming isn't my job, it's my joy.

hmart 14y ago
for the sake of the discussion : Ask HN: Is 36 too late to start into programming? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1444486 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1444486

xradionut 14y ago

Creative programming at times can give me pleasure that's only equaled by a really good workout or really good sex.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

jonjacky 14y ago

Consider Peter Neumann, who has been hacking since the early 1950s. At age 80, he is beginning work on the 5-year DARPA-funded Clean Slate project to "build something new from the bottom up" to respond to security problems. Recent HN posts link to NY Times stories: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4714328 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4714328 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4722781 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4722781

cafard 14y ago

I am well over 50. It has been a while since I took up a wholly new programming language, but I keep my hand in with quite a few. I tend to vote with radicalbyte's friend--being able to choose how much and when to work would be nice, but getting out of the house and working is definitely a good thing.

orionblastar 14y ago

I am 44 years old and on disability. I still try to write programs, but I write small ones. Due to a mental illness and a stroke, my abilities are limited, and I cannot work a job, but I keep on trying.

JAYVIX 14y ago

In my opinion, you have a lot to offer. 1) From a user experience / marketing standpoint - (target demo's have a better grasp of their own likes and "dislikes" when engaging an application.) - if one of the targeted demo. There are "discoveries" that usually happen through conversation. A mature programmer can provide an entrepreneur perspective or another idea to improve the product due to the architecture of other programs (built in the past). 2) Depending on the Programmer; the older way of training code revolved around meticulous detail) - also very helpful sometimes in avoiding bugs.