7 ms·
There's no way this isn't a slam dunk case to sue the piss out of the Fargo Police, probably the US Marshals and maybe other orgs. The woman in the surveillance
by rpcope1 7mo ago
There's no way this isn't a slam dunk case to sue the piss out of the Fargo Police, probably the US Marshals and maybe other orgs. The woman in the surveillance phone clearly looks way younger, among the many other obvious signs this woman didn't do it. I hope she wrings at least several million dollars out of the government.
- Blackthorn 7mo agoWith all the lovely qualified immunity doctrine? That's wishful thinking.
- Jtsummers 7mo agoThat may protect them personally, but not the city and the department itself from being sued.
- blagie 7mo agoNope. https://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/criminally-yours-indicting-a-ham-sandwich/ https://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/criminally-yours-indicting-a... You can be arrested, indicted, and held in jail on pretrial, and there is literally no recourse. There are many other ways jail can happen without due process. Where I live: * Civil contempt. Absolutely immunity. No due process. Record is about 16 years. Having a bad day? Judge can toss you in jail. * "Dangerous." Half a year. No due process. He-said she-said. * "Insane." Psychiatric hold. Three days. Due process on paper, not in practice. Police in my town can and do use this if they don't like you. Absolutely no recourse. You come out with a gap in income, employment, and, if you missed rent/mortgage, no home. Landlords will simply throw your stuff away too. You're also basically damned if things do move forward, since from jail, you have no access to evidence, to internet (for legal research), and no reasonable way to recruit a lawyer (and, for most people, pay for one). Can happen to anyone. Less common if you're rich and can afford a good lawyer, but far from uncommon.
- mothballed 7mo ago>* "Insane." Psychiatric hold. Three days. Due process on paper, not in practice. Police in my town can and do use this if they don't like you. A friend of mine was committed longer than 3 days without council or the ability to represent themselves in the hearing. Apparently the whole process of being committed is ex parte in practice in some states.
- abduhl 7mo agoThis is a bit hyperbolic and the exaggerations really undermine what I think is your broader point (that there is rarely recourse when you're held for short to moderate amounts of time). It is hard for me to believe that someone was held for 16 years on civil contempt without due process or that someone was held for half a year without due process after being deemed dangerous. The reason that is hard for me to believe is that the due process is implicit in the action you describe. Civil contempt is from a judge which implies that you're already in court - that's due process. Someone being labeled "dangerous" implies that a finding was made by a neutral party - that's due process. Just because you disagree with the outcome doesn't mean that due process wasn't given.
- mothballed 7mo agoYeah it's "due process." In civil contempt the judge is a witness and prosecutor in the very "process" they're judging. That's the most perverted form of due process imaginable. A judge should have to recuse themselves if they are acting as witness to the supposed infraction.
- abduhl 7mo agoCivil contempt isn't some roving criminal charge that jumps out of the jury box randomly. It's meant to make somebody comply with a court order. Anybody in civil contempt holds the keys to the jailhouse door in their own hands, all they have to do is comply. This statement should make you uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable because it is a pure expression of the power of the state. But it's still due process.
- djfobbz 7mo agoCriminal immunity? Sure. Civil immunity? Nope! She could definitely make a nice buck.
- theLiminator 7mo agoOff of taxpayer money sadly. Imo we really need a fix for this. When cops are grossly negligent the money should come out of their aggregate pension fund (or at least partially).
- SunshineTheCat 7mo agoYes, this is the key point. Tax payers get a nice big bill while the people who caused the problem get a nice paid vacation while they conduct an internal "investigation" that typically finds they did nothing wrong.
- vkou 7mo agoThere is a fix to it. Elect people who will hold them accountable. As long as you keep electing clowns that let the police do whatever they want, the police will... Do whatever they want.
- theLiminator 7mo agoYeah, of course they need to held accountable, and we need to vote in people who will do so. What I'm suggesting is an alignment of incentives that will ensure that police will try to do their best to not be negligent. Of course there's a balance that has to be struck so that police are empowered enough to act. So perhaps something like settlements against the police being 30% borne by the police pension fund and 70% by taxpayers is sufficient. I think this will also make police very enthusiastic about bodycams and holding each other accountable.
- rectang 7mo ago“Tough on crime” -> lenient on police -> innocent grandmas in jail.
- anigbrowl 7mo agoimho the US Marshals are the only innocent party here, as my understanding is they don't do investigations and just serve warrants without any knowledge of the underlying case.
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- john_strinlai 7mo ago>I hope she wrings at least several million dollars out of the government. which the citizens end up footing the bill for. yay.
- eek2121 7mo agoMaybe the citizens will learn to elect better leaders.
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- madaxe_again 7mo agoThanks, I needed a good laugh this evening.
- phendrenad2 7mo agoMaybe they'll realize votes have consequences.
- DangitBobby 7mo agoPeople famously do not learn from the experiences of others. It's a big reason why life is so hard when you'd expect it to be pretty easy based on our collective experience.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago“Unable to pay her bills from jail, she lost her home, her car and even her dog.” Who stole her dog?!
- fluidcruft 7mo agoProbably picked up by animal control as abandoned and euthanized.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo agoThat’s really horrible. I’d prefer to know rather than guess at that.
- fluidcruft 7mo agoIt's pretty common when a dog is abandoned. Likely her children couldn't afford to care for it. I suppose there is a chance they put it up for adoption (same outcome is likely).
- JumpCrisscross 7mo agoSorry. I really fucking hate this. I don’t imagine there is a charity somewhere that works against this?
- DangitBobby 7mo agoI imagine if there had been anyone intervening in her favor it would have been to resolve her case faster than 5 months.
- throwaway17_17 7mo agoNo large scale orgs that I know of. Our local bar has an attorney who does work against it, she has her number at the jail where other inmates will pass her number around if some mentions their dog, and intake officers will often suggest to inmates that if they have pets to call her. She is absolutely the most hard core lover of dogs I have ever met, and she will literally drive/run into danger to get to a canine to get it to a local non-kill shelter.
- wvenable 7mo agoIt literally doesn't matter -- you're focused on the wrong thing. She could be that woman's exact twin and it wouldn't matter. Spending six months in jail and losing your house, your car, and your dog with the flimsiest of evidence is ridiculous.
- OutOfHere 7mo agoA lawsuit is exactly what matters. They learn only the hard way, and no other way. If you want them to not be ridiculous, a lawsuit with large punitive damages is the only practical way to get there.
- wvenable 7mo agoI disagree. The city or state gets sued and they pay the result from the taxpayer funds and literally nobody learns anything, especially not the hard way. Everyone is so completely divorced, and in some cases immune, from consequences that this will change nothing.
- anon84873628 7mo agoThe cities and states make laws to better govern police behavior. You can look back on a century of history of this.
- selcuka 7mo agoAfter a couple million dollar lawsuits the city or state will learn to be more careful with their methods. It's the taxpayer funds, but it's not an endless supply of money. Cities and states have their own budgets.
- LadyCailin 7mo agoThere’s a heck of a lot of individual cities and states. Their ability to remain solvent is greater than your ability to stay out of jail.
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