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Yeah... "I would do nothing different from Biden"[1] probably wasn't the right message at the peak of Biden's unpopularity. I wonder who came up with that, or i

by mort96 8mo ago

Yeah... "I would do nothing different from Biden"[1] probably wasn't the right message at the peak of Biden's unpopularity. I wonder who came up with that, or if it was genuine. [1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-view-00182883 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-vi...

elif 8mo ago
I don't think there was as much pushback about his policy as much as there was discontent with an economic slowdown and a somewhat ironic (considering where we find ourselves) frustration with his age.
- mort96 8mo ago
  Well there was a lot of people, especially on the dem side of the spectrum, who weren't a fan of his public unwavering support of the genocide of the Palestinian people. Internal investigations within the party allegedly agree with this analysis. But yes, people dislike Biden for a lot of things he didn't deserve to be disliked for, such as inflation which was caused by COVID and Trump and which Biden did a fantastic job of controlling, but which parts of the public simply perceived as "inflation went wild under Biden". Still, even though it's not fair, the message "I will do nothing different from (unpopular incumbent)" isn't great campaign strategy, in my opinion.
  - elif 8mo ago
    People who did not like the situation in the middle east did not vote for trump thinking it would improve things. Because we have a true dichotomy I don't think it's reasonable to assume that trump had any sort of "policy" win there
- qup 8mo ago
  You're confused if you think it was about his age. It was his cognitive ability.
jahnu 8mo ago
Question from a European who doesn’t deeply understand your partisan politics: what specifically should they have done differently? My probably wrong understanding was that people were still angry about the inflationary consequences of dealing with the pandemic and didn’t believe it was tapering off, didn’t believe that unemployment was low, didn’t believe that real wages were increasing. How could they have combated that?
- CoastalCoder 8mo ago
  > Question from a European who doesn’t deeply understand your partisan politics: what specifically should they have done differently? For what it's worth, I think a lot of us Americans have realized that we don't understand the partisan dynamics either. Many of us are very confused about the ongoing support for Trump. There's clearly a huge chasm in mindsets, and personally I've made little headway in forming a plausible mental model that explains it all.
  - cagenut 8mo ago
    really? or is it just that you don't like the answer so you keep trying to find another one. what historical examples of this very common pattern did you read up on?
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
  - gmac 8mo ago
    Right wingers have a whole different set of moral values that strike me (as someone more on the left) as _immoral_ values. Look up moral foundations theory by Jonathan Haidt and others. I’ve found this in one sense useful (so _that’s_ why Republicans react to ${ISSUE} the way that do!) and in another depressing (how do you _deal_ with people who think that doing what they’re told to do by an authority figure is intrinsically a moral virtue?).
  - starkshift 8mo ago
    There’s no one single thing of course, but there are themes A couple generally unifying themes: 1. People that for the most part want to be left alone and not messed with 2. People that don’t want to be talked down to
anon7000 8mo ago
If people payed attention, Kamala’s policies were decently well thought out and not the exact same as Biden. It’s more about how demonized the libs have been, dissatisfaction with “woke culture,” certain groups of conservatives who will never vote pro-choice, and certain populations not feeling like they have a spot in liberal dialogue. (Young men.) and partly because she’s a black woman. I would argue the election had almost NOTHING to do with actual policy or cabinet choices, because Trump should have easily lost if it was. His previous cabinet was a disaster and he can no longer attract the best and brightest due to his controversy. So, exactly as expected, his cabinet is a fucking disaster. People are attracted to the guy who will go apeshit on a system that doesn’t seem to work for them, even when stability & slow progress is actually better. (Fast progress is even better, but that’s not what Trump provides)
- mort96 8mo ago
  Broadly speaking, people don't pay attention. The message from her campaign[1] was that she would do nothing differently from Biden. This is a mistake even if (especially if!) her actual policies are different from Biden's. The only thing Harris could come up with was, eventually: "unlike Biden, I will have a republican in my cabinet". [1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-view-00182883 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-vi...
SmirkingRevenge 8mo ago
She was basically trying not to go negative on Biden while still in office. Biden and his team were actively pressuring her to stay onside, according to some reporting, which is indefensible. Reprehensible really. She should've burnt the bridge. But it probably wouldn't have made a difference in the end. It was all mostly over when Biden decided to run again in the first place. Kamala moved numbers in states she campaigned in, and she probably could have moved more with enough time. Mistakes were made - but most important and most blameworthy mistake came from the Republicans 4 years earlier, when they rejected their obligation to impeach and convict after Trump nearly killed them all on TV.
afiori 8mo ago
based on recentish interviews (or book?) it was likely genuine in the sense of not being performative, but apparently she knew it was both false and the wrong thing to say but said it anyway out of loyalty to Biden.

by mort96 8mo ago

elif 8mo ago

I don't think there was as much pushback about his policy as much as there was discontent with an economic slowdown and a somewhat ironic (considering where we find ourselves) frustration with his age.

mort96 8mo ago
Well there was a lot of people, especially on the dem side of the spectrum, who weren't a fan of his public unwavering support of the genocide of the Palestinian people. Internal investigations within the party allegedly agree with this analysis. But yes, people dislike Biden for a lot of things he didn't deserve to be disliked for, such as inflation which was caused by COVID and Trump and which Biden did a fantastic job of controlling, but which parts of the public simply perceived as "inflation went wild under Biden". Still, even though it's not fair, the message "I will do nothing different from (unpopular incumbent)" isn't great campaign strategy, in my opinion.
- elif 8mo ago
  People who did not like the situation in the middle east did not vote for trump thinking it would improve things. Because we have a true dichotomy I don't think it's reasonable to assume that trump had any sort of "policy" win there
qup 8mo ago
You're confused if you think it was about his age. It was his cognitive ability.

jahnu 8mo ago

Question from a European who doesn’t deeply understand your partisan politics: what specifically should they have done differently? My probably wrong understanding was that people were still angry about the inflationary consequences of dealing with the pandemic and didn’t believe it was tapering off, didn’t believe that unemployment was low, didn’t believe that real wages were increasing. How could they have combated that?

CoastalCoder 8mo ago
> Question from a European who doesn’t deeply understand your partisan politics: what specifically should they have done differently? For what it's worth, I think a lot of us Americans have realized that we don't understand the partisan dynamics either. Many of us are very confused about the ongoing support for Trump. There's clearly a huge chasm in mindsets, and personally I've made little headway in forming a plausible mental model that explains it all.
- cagenut 8mo ago
  really? or is it just that you don't like the answer so you keep trying to find another one. what historical examples of this very common pattern did you read up on?
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
- gmac 8mo ago
  Right wingers have a whole different set of moral values that strike me (as someone more on the left) as _immoral_ values. Look up moral foundations theory by Jonathan Haidt and others. I’ve found this in one sense useful (so _that’s_ why Republicans react to ${ISSUE} the way that do!) and in another depressing (how do you _deal_ with people who think that doing what they’re told to do by an authority figure is intrinsically a moral virtue?).
- starkshift 8mo ago
  There’s no one single thing of course, but there are themes A couple generally unifying themes: 1. People that for the most part want to be left alone and not messed with 2. People that don’t want to be talked down to

anon7000 8mo ago

If people payed attention, Kamala’s policies were decently well thought out and not the exact same as Biden. It’s more about how demonized the libs have been, dissatisfaction with “woke culture,” certain groups of conservatives who will never vote pro-choice, and certain populations not feeling like they have a spot in liberal dialogue. (Young men.) and partly because she’s a black woman. I would argue the election had almost NOTHING to do with actual policy or cabinet choices, because Trump should have easily lost if it was. His previous cabinet was a disaster and he can no longer attract the best and brightest due to his controversy. So, exactly as expected, his cabinet is a fucking disaster. People are attracted to the guy who will go apeshit on a system that doesn’t seem to work for them, even when stability & slow progress is actually better. (Fast progress is even better, but that’s not what Trump provides)

mort96 8mo ago
Broadly speaking, people don't pay attention. The message from her campaign[1] was that she would do nothing differently from Biden. This is a mistake even if (especially if!) her actual policies are different from Biden's. The only thing Harris could come up with was, eventually: "unlike Biden, I will have a republican in my cabinet". [1]: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-view-00182883 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-vi...

SmirkingRevenge 8mo ago

She was basically trying not to go negative on Biden while still in office. Biden and his team were actively pressuring her to stay onside, according to some reporting, which is indefensible. Reprehensible really. She should've burnt the bridge. But it probably wouldn't have made a difference in the end. It was all mostly over when Biden decided to run again in the first place. Kamala moved numbers in states she campaigned in, and she probably could have moved more with enough time. Mistakes were made - but most important and most blameworthy mistake came from the Republicans 4 years earlier, when they rejected their obligation to impeach and convict after Trump nearly killed them all on TV.

afiori 8mo ago

based on recentish interviews (or book?) it was likely genuine in the sense of not being performative, but apparently she knew it was both false and the wrong thing to say but said it anyway out of loyalty to Biden.