4 ms·

I feel like "most repairable macbook" is a bit like saying "most edible dirt". While it's good that there's progress, it's pretty telling that they need to only

I feel like "most repairable macbook" is a bit like saying "most edible dirt". While it's good that there's progress, it's pretty telling that they need to only compare it within the same company's products.

Someone1234 7mo ago
I'd suggest you watch a teardown video. The Neo is absurdly repairable compared to just about anything in its category. It is extremely modular, and uses screws.
- ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
  Repairability examples: modular USB ports; battery sans glue; trackpad Twenty years ago, I worked part-time in a laptop repair facility for a large educational institution; this computer would have been a godsend (e.g. the first MacBooks had hundreds of screws, plastic everywhere).
  - MBCook 7mo ago
    Keyboard that doesn’t require half the computer to be thrown away to replace it! That probably bit them HARD during the butterfly days.
    - ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
      >the butterfly days I skipped that entire generation, but the modern silicon keyboards are slick. My workshop computer is a 2012 MacBook "Pro" (disabled GPU), which also has fantastic keys. Best Apple keyboard ever has to be the 12" PowerBook G4, but that may just be nostalgic... ---- My major critique of the Neo is: for its intended market (younger), it should be more durable, not less — why is there no MagSafe power connector? From a computer repair technician's POV, there will be lot$ of U$B port replacement$, due to power supply abusers (have you seen some students' charging cables?!). From manufacturer's POV: if they had MagSafe, they probably wouldn't need separate USB ports (IMHO). It's almost guaranteed that the second revision of this product line will use MagSafe (you own the patent already!).
      - MBCook 7mo ago
        Cost. It’s 100% cost. The USB-C port that’s already there anyway is free, thus way cheaper. No special port. No special cable in the box. I don’t think it will come in the next revision.
        ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
        It is literally the main reason I would purchase an Air (were I in the market — am not). 15" screen would be reason#2. There were several generations of Apple laptops that mysteriously didn't have MagSafe — I never bought one — very glad to see its return on my own M3MBAir15".
  - mmmlinux 7mo ago
    Most laptops back then were filled with tons of screws.
    - ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
      Tell me about it. Even decades later, whenever my limbic dreaming needs "random technical noise" it still pulls up images of early 2000s laptop screw bins. For nightmares, the screwbin either tips over repeatedly, or a dropped screw poofs indefinitely. Sometimes I wake up sweated, snackycaked crumb constellations jambed up'gainst bedsheets and fattie. Screws, everywhere. Me.
- edhelas 7mo ago
  Wow screws. Crazy. So the industry standard for many years. But I guess it's Different™ this time.
0_____0 7mo ago
I've replaced a battery, screen, hinges on a macbook (2015). Did they get considerably worse at repairability after that? Because while there were a fair number of steps, it's not like they required exotic techniques to pull off.
- shrubble 7mo ago
  Yes they did. Reminder: your experience is 11 years ago and several Intel and ARM generations old. Also it’s more than $3 Trillion in revenue ago.
  - ceejayoz 7mo ago
    They’ve gotten largely more repairable since then, including adhesives you can electrically debond.
    - malmeloo 7mo ago
      That's a relatively recent development. Repairability has been very poor for quite a while, but now they're finally starting to improve the situation somewhat.
    - the_biot 7mo ago
      ...electrically debond, are you serious? More details please, this sounds very interesting.
      - 05 7mo ago
        Video (use SponsorBlock): https://youtu.be/M6jBXI6CR9s?t=156 https://youtu.be/M6jBXI6CR9s?t=156 Article: https://www.ifixit.com/News/100352/we-hot-wired-the-iphone-16 https://www.ifixit.com/News/100352/we-hot-wired-the-iphone-1... Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41623251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41623251
  - alwillis 7mo ago
    Not $3 trillion in revenue; a $3 trillion market cap.
lallysingh 7mo ago
Yeah, I mean I'm looking at frameworks/thinkpads on one side and chromebooks on the other. Not charging up to $440 (!) for a keyboard isn't a great act of engineering or generosity. This has been ridiculous for a very, very long time. Being less ridiculous isn't worth celebrating. The goal markers have moved so damned much. Compare to a thinkpad keyboard FRU. They have fluid drains and still cost $99 for a top-end laptop. My daughter's chromebook keyboard replacement at school was $16.
- tpmoney 7mo ago
  > This has been ridiculous for a very, very long time. Being less ridiculous isn't worth celebrating. So what I'm hearing is you don't want Apple to make their computers more repairable? Think of this like training a dog. My dog can open the cabinet in the kitchen on their own, pull out a specific requested item, close the door again and bring the item to me from anywhere in my house. Opening a door is just tugging on something, bringing something to me is just fetch, closing a door is just pushing with its nose. If I went into the training of this with the attitude of "oh wow, you pulled the door open" or "oh wow, you fetched the thing" and didn't reward my dog for doing those simple pieces because "any good dog can tug on a rope or fetch a ball", then my dog would never have gotten to the point of doing all of those things in a repeatable complex sequence that serves a useful purpose. Instead every part of it that my dog got right, they got all sorts of praise and rewards. And so once I started asking more, my dog eagerly tried to do those things because they knew if they did what I wanted, they could get the things they wanted. Train your companies the same way. Give them the positive PR and praise they're looking for when they do the things you want them to do. You'll get them to do what you want a lot faster if they have an actual incentive to do it.

Someone1234 7mo ago

I'd suggest you watch a teardown video. The Neo is absurdly repairable compared to just about anything in its category. It is extremely modular, and uses screws.

ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
Repairability examples: modular USB ports; battery sans glue; trackpad Twenty years ago, I worked part-time in a laptop repair facility for a large educational institution; this computer would have been a godsend (e.g. the first MacBooks had hundreds of screws, plastic everywhere).
- MBCook 7mo ago
  Keyboard that doesn’t require half the computer to be thrown away to replace it! That probably bit them HARD during the butterfly days.
  - ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
    >the butterfly days I skipped that entire generation, but the modern silicon keyboards are slick. My workshop computer is a 2012 MacBook "Pro" (disabled GPU), which also has fantastic keys. Best Apple keyboard ever has to be the 12" PowerBook G4, but that may just be nostalgic... ---- My major critique of the Neo is: for its intended market (younger), it should be more durable, not less — why is there no MagSafe power connector? From a computer repair technician's POV, there will be lot$ of U$B port replacement$, due to power supply abusers (have you seen some students' charging cables?!). From manufacturer's POV: if they had MagSafe, they probably wouldn't need separate USB ports (IMHO). It's almost guaranteed that the second revision of this product line will use MagSafe (you own the patent already!).
    - MBCook 7mo ago
      Cost. It’s 100% cost. The USB-C port that’s already there anyway is free, thus way cheaper. No special port. No special cable in the box. I don’t think it will come in the next revision.
      - ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
        It is literally the main reason I would purchase an Air (were I in the market — am not). 15" screen would be reason#2. There were several generations of Apple laptops that mysteriously didn't have MagSafe — I never bought one — very glad to see its return on my own M3MBAir15".
- mmmlinux 7mo ago
  Most laptops back then were filled with tons of screws.
  - ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
    Tell me about it. Even decades later, whenever my limbic dreaming needs "random technical noise" it still pulls up images of early 2000s laptop screw bins. For nightmares, the screwbin either tips over repeatedly, or a dropped screw poofs indefinitely. Sometimes I wake up sweated, snackycaked crumb constellations jambed up'gainst bedsheets and fattie. Screws, everywhere. Me.
edhelas 7mo ago
Wow screws. Crazy. So the industry standard for many years. But I guess it's Different™ this time.

0_____0 7mo ago

I've replaced a battery, screen, hinges on a macbook (2015). Did they get considerably worse at repairability after that? Because while there were a fair number of steps, it's not like they required exotic techniques to pull off.

shrubble 7mo ago
Yes they did. Reminder: your experience is 11 years ago and several Intel and ARM generations old. Also it’s more than $3 Trillion in revenue ago.
- ceejayoz 7mo ago
  They’ve gotten largely more repairable since then, including adhesives you can electrically debond.
  - malmeloo 7mo ago
    That's a relatively recent development. Repairability has been very poor for quite a while, but now they're finally starting to improve the situation somewhat.
  - the_biot 7mo ago
    ...electrically debond, are you serious? More details please, this sounds very interesting.
    - 05 7mo ago
      Video (use SponsorBlock): https://youtu.be/M6jBXI6CR9s?t=156 https://youtu.be/M6jBXI6CR9s?t=156 Article: https://www.ifixit.com/News/100352/we-hot-wired-the-iphone-16 https://www.ifixit.com/News/100352/we-hot-wired-the-iphone-1... Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41623251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41623251
- alwillis 7mo ago
  Not $3 trillion in revenue; a $3 trillion market cap.

lallysingh 7mo ago

Yeah, I mean I'm looking at frameworks/thinkpads on one side and chromebooks on the other. Not charging up to $440 (!) for a keyboard isn't a great act of engineering or generosity. This has been ridiculous for a very, very long time. Being less ridiculous isn't worth celebrating. The goal markers have moved so damned much. Compare to a thinkpad keyboard FRU. They have fluid drains and still cost $99 for a top-end laptop. My daughter's chromebook keyboard replacement at school was $16.

tpmoney 7mo ago
> This has been ridiculous for a very, very long time. Being less ridiculous isn't worth celebrating. So what I'm hearing is you don't want Apple to make their computers more repairable? Think of this like training a dog. My dog can open the cabinet in the kitchen on their own, pull out a specific requested item, close the door again and bring the item to me from anywhere in my house. Opening a door is just tugging on something, bringing something to me is just fetch, closing a door is just pushing with its nose. If I went into the training of this with the attitude of "oh wow, you pulled the door open" or "oh wow, you fetched the thing" and didn't reward my dog for doing those simple pieces because "any good dog can tug on a rope or fetch a ball", then my dog would never have gotten to the point of doing all of those things in a repeatable complex sequence that serves a useful purpose. Instead every part of it that my dog got right, they got all sorts of praise and rewards. And so once I started asking more, my dog eagerly tried to do those things because they knew if they did what I wanted, they could get the things they wanted. Train your companies the same way. Give them the positive PR and praise they're looking for when they do the things you want them to do. You'll get them to do what you want a lot faster if they have an actual incentive to do it.