4 ms·

This is my personal bet. It's just low fiber diets.

by staticassertion 7mo ago

boringg 7mo ago
It can't just be low fiber diets - there has to be some other exposures involved.
- staticassertion 7mo ago
  Why?
  - Jerrrrrrrry 7mo ago
    Apt username from a person suggesting that non edible fiber is the nutrient causing illness and thats the presupposition we should argue against. Why would more fiber help?
    - staticassertion 7mo ago
      Uh, what? I have not made a presuppositional argument (I made no argument at all...). I made a statement about my epistemic state - ie: that I would "bet" on low fiber being the major contributor to colon cancer rates. Someone then asserted that it can't be that, and I asked "why?". > Why would more fiber help? Because there is an incredible amount of research into high fiber diets being good for your gut, including reduced colon cancer rates. This is the consensus of various organizations such as WHO - high fiber diets have lower risks of colon cancer.
      - boringg 7mo ago
        My comment is that it is not ONLY low fiber diets. There are a lot of other risk factors involved. Will high fiber help - absolutely. Is it the be all end all - no I doubt it. Western diet collapsed its fiber intake well over 80 years ago - it would have shown up already.
        staticassertion 7mo ago
        > My comment is that it is not ONLY low fiber diets. Well, you said "can't" and I asked "why", which feels very reasonable to me. Your argument seems to be that it wouldn't account properly for the data - specifically, you're saying we would have seen colon cancer rates rise earlier. > Western diet collapsed its fiber intake well over 80 years ago - it would have shown up already. I don't really buy this for a lot of reasons. Probably the two most important are (a) ability to screen historically and (b) the timing isn't particularly "off" for the fiber argument. We did see it already, we've been seeing increases in color cancer risks for decades. Now, I'm not married to it "just" being fiber whatsoever, but if I were to "bet" on the major contributing factor, naively, that's where my money would go. I think it's very reasonable to not place your bet there.
        boringg 7mo ago
        Should be a betting service for this kind of thing instead of sports betting. Maybe all the men betting sports might read and change their habits based on the betting outcomes (and improve their health). I would also bet top reason is fiber but it isn't the only reason - multiple factors at play.
        staticassertion 7mo ago
        I think that's all very fair.
        kvgr 7mo ago
        Yeah, i wonder what was the fiber i take for someone from egypt or hunter gatherers. I get it that in our modern diet, fiber is better than sugar and plastic stuff made in factories combining oils and sugar into something that looks like food. But if a person is regular and does not have any gut issues, how would more fiber help?
        staticassertion 7mo ago
        > Yeah, i wonder what was the fiber i take for someone from egypt or hunter gatherers. Very high. > But if a person is regular and does not have any gut issues, how would more fiber help? There is a ton of research about this and it's why WHO and other orgs state explicitly that fiber reduces rates of colon cancer.
    - h4kr1 7mo ago
      The mechanism behind why more fiber helps is pretty straightforward: Insoluble fiber speeds up gut motility. Faster gut motility means less time for toxins to sit and absorb in your gut. Also, fermentable fibers serve as substrate for gut microbes, producing short-chain fatty acids (butyrate is one - a primary fuel source for colonocytes - the cells that line your colon). It also lowers colonic pH, inhibiting pathogenic bacteria. Lastly, (although there are tons more benefits I'm not listing), soluble fiber is incredible for people trying to lose weight, as highly fibrous foods increase satiety, keeping you fuller for longer.
- volkl48 7mo ago
  I mean, there's a well-documented link between colon cancer and inadequate fiber intake. And it's also well-documented that the average Western diet is highly deficient in fiber and that this is a thing which has gotten much worse in the last 75 years. There also seems to be at least some light evidence that there may be generational effects - that the starting point of your gut is already bad if your mother's was.

This is my personal bet. It's just low fiber diets.

boringg 7mo ago

It can't just be low fiber diets - there has to be some other exposures involved.

staticassertion 7mo ago
Why?
- Jerrrrrrrry 7mo ago
  Apt username from a person suggesting that non edible fiber is the nutrient causing illness and thats the presupposition we should argue against. Why would more fiber help?
  - staticassertion 7mo ago
    Uh, what? I have not made a presuppositional argument (I made no argument at all...). I made a statement about my epistemic state - ie: that I would "bet" on low fiber being the major contributor to colon cancer rates. Someone then asserted that it can't be that, and I asked "why?". > Why would more fiber help? Because there is an incredible amount of research into high fiber diets being good for your gut, including reduced colon cancer rates. This is the consensus of various organizations such as WHO - high fiber diets have lower risks of colon cancer.
    - boringg 7mo ago
      My comment is that it is not ONLY low fiber diets. There are a lot of other risk factors involved. Will high fiber help - absolutely. Is it the be all end all - no I doubt it. Western diet collapsed its fiber intake well over 80 years ago - it would have shown up already.
      - staticassertion 7mo ago
        > My comment is that it is not ONLY low fiber diets. Well, you said "can't" and I asked "why", which feels very reasonable to me. Your argument seems to be that it wouldn't account properly for the data - specifically, you're saying we would have seen colon cancer rates rise earlier. > Western diet collapsed its fiber intake well over 80 years ago - it would have shown up already. I don't really buy this for a lot of reasons. Probably the two most important are (a) ability to screen historically and (b) the timing isn't particularly "off" for the fiber argument. We did see it already, we've been seeing increases in color cancer risks for decades. Now, I'm not married to it "just" being fiber whatsoever, but if I were to "bet" on the major contributing factor, naively, that's where my money would go. I think it's very reasonable to not place your bet there.
        boringg 7mo ago
        Should be a betting service for this kind of thing instead of sports betting. Maybe all the men betting sports might read and change their habits based on the betting outcomes (and improve their health). I would also bet top reason is fiber but it isn't the only reason - multiple factors at play.
        staticassertion 7mo ago
        I think that's all very fair.
        kvgr 7mo ago
        Yeah, i wonder what was the fiber i take for someone from egypt or hunter gatherers. I get it that in our modern diet, fiber is better than sugar and plastic stuff made in factories combining oils and sugar into something that looks like food. But if a person is regular and does not have any gut issues, how would more fiber help?
        staticassertion 7mo ago
        > Yeah, i wonder what was the fiber i take for someone from egypt or hunter gatherers. Very high. > But if a person is regular and does not have any gut issues, how would more fiber help? There is a ton of research about this and it's why WHO and other orgs state explicitly that fiber reduces rates of colon cancer.
  - h4kr1 7mo ago
    The mechanism behind why more fiber helps is pretty straightforward: Insoluble fiber speeds up gut motility. Faster gut motility means less time for toxins to sit and absorb in your gut. Also, fermentable fibers serve as substrate for gut microbes, producing short-chain fatty acids (butyrate is one - a primary fuel source for colonocytes - the cells that line your colon). It also lowers colonic pH, inhibiting pathogenic bacteria. Lastly, (although there are tons more benefits I'm not listing), soluble fiber is incredible for people trying to lose weight, as highly fibrous foods increase satiety, keeping you fuller for longer.
volkl48 7mo ago
I mean, there's a well-documented link between colon cancer and inadequate fiber intake. And it's also well-documented that the average Western diet is highly deficient in fiber and that this is a thing which has gotten much worse in the last 75 years. There also seems to be at least some light evidence that there may be generational effects - that the starting point of your gut is already bad if your mother's was.