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Big flag error I can see right away is joint custody where a parent lives out of the zone. Every time the parent who doesn't live in the exact neighborhood dro

by Ccecil 7mo ago

Big flag error I can see right away is joint custody where a parent lives out of the zone. Every time the parent who doesn't live in the exact neighborhood drops the child off the car is flagged. Then what happens when they look into this? Does the child automatically go to the school zoned for the parent with a "better" school or a "cheaper" school? Who makes the decision? What about paid caregivers or family members? This is a huge waste of time/money for everyone except for the company who sold the school on the "need" for it. There are way better ways of combating fraud which don't introduce mass surveillance.

reactordev 7mo ago
This is all around a bad idea. Not only because of the scenario you mentioned but because modern “families” look different today. Zones split right down neighborhoods… even living one block away puts you in another school.
- philamonster 7mo ago
  Right. I am in that bucket described by parent comment but also live literally at the edge of the district boundary our second child will eventually attend that I intentionally took up residence in a few years ago when we split. All kinds of motivation as to why a SD would do this but I don't need that decision influenced by a company that has no presence in the state let alone the district I live.
  - reactordev 7mo ago
    In areas where school choice isn’t available, it’s to keep the affluent districts, affluent. It’s racism and bigotry disguised as protecting children.
    - bobthepanda 7mo ago
      The inequality of school districts is probably one of the biggest systemic barriers in our society. That being said, school choice isn’t that helpful. The most segregated school district in the US is NYC, which has had citywide school choice for a long time. > In 2018 in New York, 90% of black students attended predominantly nonwhite schools, while Latino student enrollment in predominantly nonwhite schools has remained roughly stable (84%). Almost two out of three black students and over half of Latino students attend intensely segregated schools, where less than 10% of student enrollment is white.
      - reactordev 7mo ago
        Just because they are there statistically doesn’t mean there isn’t an underlying reason. Maybe the “best” districts do what was done to me when I was growing up and purposefully test me harder, then get upset when I passed. Trying to justify that I didn’t belong but I ended up scoring a 99.9% on their stupid aptitude tests. There’s a whole host of reasons why someone with choice still chooses shitty…
      - JuniperMesos 7mo ago
        The white population of NYC is only about 30%. If every school in the city had exactly the same racial demographics as the city as a whole, every single school would be a predominantly nonwhite school.
    - philamonster 7mo ago
      Yeah well aware after ~17 years in public/higher ed in multiple states and what crossed my mind first when I read the parent's name in the article though trying not to generalize as I know nothing of the district mentioned.
phil21 7mo ago
Where I grew up it was "technically" whichever parent had primary custody, which back then was usually very clear - especially during the school year. So much like taxes are "6 months and a day" for residency, it was similar for school. In reality it was basically just "one parent lives in the district with a legal mailing address that works" - and very rarely enforced or even looked into. Especially if a kid was already enrolled and then later had a life event. It more competitive/exclusive districts though this gets taken very seriously, with certain parents tattle-telling on others, etc.
nonameiguess 7mo ago
This is "falsehoods programmers believe about addresses" on steroids. Six years ago, I couldn't drive due to injuries and gave my car to my dad, who took it to California. I was pretty diligent about making sure the ownership records transferred and he registered it, but I'm imagining the state of Texas using this as a pretense to deny my ability to vote, and California deciding I owe them income taxes.
- ghaff 7mo ago
  State taxes can be a bit of a mess, E&Y (accountants) were enlisted to started looking at expense reports at a long-ago former employer to be sure people were staying within the guidelines. There are "jock" taxes mainly intended for pro athletes and entertainers but they theoretically apply to everyone for even a one night stay in some states. (Shortish stays for "normal" people were ignored but not sure how kosher that actually was.)
  - kjellsbells 7mo ago
    you're giving me flashbacks to my time at Microsoft where a one night trip to another state meant hours wrestling with EY's filing system to record the trip and quizzical questions from my accountant about why Microsoft paid $0.23 to South Carolina for my taxes. IIRC it really got going in the pandemic when states realized that all these knowledge workers were earning nice money and not paying a cent in taxes to the state they had run to to get away from the virus.
    - ghaff 7mo ago
      Yeah. This started during the pandemic. And there were some messages from people on internal message boards along the lines of... but... such and such a state has a requirement that taxes be filed for even a day (which, frankly, would have been cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than to pay for my accountant to file an additional state filing). But said employer apparently decided to ignore de minimus travel stuff though I know people who actually spent a lot of time out of state did need to keep track. But, also yeah, MA and NH had a bit of a spat over workers at an MA company who lived in NH who just stopped coming in and therefore stopped filing MA taxes.
HexPhantom 7mo ago
A kid could legitimately split time between two homes or be dropped off by whichever parent is on duty that morning
Zigurd 7mo ago
The American system of school funding strongly encourages pulling up the ladder behind you. Real estate values are influenced by school ratings, too. Hence Karen as-a-service.
nativeit 7mo ago
Major paradigm shift: What if, hear me out, the school administrators talked to the students and their parents? I’ll pause for everyone’s minds to finish blowing.
- john_strinlai 7mo ago
  which happened in this case! and then the school administrators said, paraphrasing, "despite owning a home in the district, fuck you"
themafia 7mo ago
> This is a huge waste of time/money Right. And when you see someone so dedicated do it there is almost certainly a hidden variable which causes this to occur. I imagine the nature of funding of these schools and the distribution of public monies has a lot to do with it. > ways of combating fraud Imagine being the richest country in the world and _caring_, honestly, about school location "fraud."
- angiolillo 7mo ago
  The country as a whole may be "rich" in terms of GDP but school districts are funded locally and many towns are struggling or underwater in terms of finances. I lived in a working class town with a school district that built up a great reputation, especially for special needs students, due to the hard work of some amazing teachers and local parents. After I left I found out that the district had to scale back many programs dramatically because the number of students, especially special needs students, was growing significantly faster than the overall tax base and got close to bankrupting the town. Most of that was an increase in the ratio of families (esp special needs families) moving to town for the schools, but apparently there were fraud cases as well. I have sympathy for the incoming families that sought out the best school they could find for their children, but I also sympathize with the existing families who lost the great programs they helped build because they became too successful. A better solution would have been to fund education more equitably at the state level, but that was not a lever that the school district had.
  - themafia 7mo ago
    > started growing much faster than the tax base So you have two unaddressed problems. > A better solution would have been to fund education more equitably at the state level Which could only work if the state was "richer" than the local district. So by playing abstract and unnecessary games with money and districting we intentionally prevent schools from accessing the funding which could obviate concerns over this "fraud" issue entirely. > but that was not a lever that the school district had at the time. The idea of a parent "fraudulently" getting their child an education from a "district" is still just hilarious to me. What is the point of this system? To make parents play games or to educate children?

by Ccecil 7mo ago

reactordev 7mo ago

This is all around a bad idea. Not only because of the scenario you mentioned but because modern “families” look different today. Zones split right down neighborhoods… even living one block away puts you in another school.

philamonster 7mo ago
Right. I am in that bucket described by parent comment but also live literally at the edge of the district boundary our second child will eventually attend that I intentionally took up residence in a few years ago when we split. All kinds of motivation as to why a SD would do this but I don't need that decision influenced by a company that has no presence in the state let alone the district I live.
- reactordev 7mo ago
  In areas where school choice isn’t available, it’s to keep the affluent districts, affluent. It’s racism and bigotry disguised as protecting children.
  - bobthepanda 7mo ago
    The inequality of school districts is probably one of the biggest systemic barriers in our society. That being said, school choice isn’t that helpful. The most segregated school district in the US is NYC, which has had citywide school choice for a long time. > In 2018 in New York, 90% of black students attended predominantly nonwhite schools, while Latino student enrollment in predominantly nonwhite schools has remained roughly stable (84%). Almost two out of three black students and over half of Latino students attend intensely segregated schools, where less than 10% of student enrollment is white.
    - reactordev 7mo ago
      Just because they are there statistically doesn’t mean there isn’t an underlying reason. Maybe the “best” districts do what was done to me when I was growing up and purposefully test me harder, then get upset when I passed. Trying to justify that I didn’t belong but I ended up scoring a 99.9% on their stupid aptitude tests. There’s a whole host of reasons why someone with choice still chooses shitty…
    - JuniperMesos 7mo ago
      The white population of NYC is only about 30%. If every school in the city had exactly the same racial demographics as the city as a whole, every single school would be a predominantly nonwhite school.
  - philamonster 7mo ago
    Yeah well aware after ~17 years in public/higher ed in multiple states and what crossed my mind first when I read the parent's name in the article though trying not to generalize as I know nothing of the district mentioned.

phil21 7mo ago

Where I grew up it was "technically" whichever parent had primary custody, which back then was usually very clear - especially during the school year. So much like taxes are "6 months and a day" for residency, it was similar for school. In reality it was basically just "one parent lives in the district with a legal mailing address that works" - and very rarely enforced or even looked into. Especially if a kid was already enrolled and then later had a life event. It more competitive/exclusive districts though this gets taken very seriously, with certain parents tattle-telling on others, etc.

nonameiguess 7mo ago

This is "falsehoods programmers believe about addresses" on steroids. Six years ago, I couldn't drive due to injuries and gave my car to my dad, who took it to California. I was pretty diligent about making sure the ownership records transferred and he registered it, but I'm imagining the state of Texas using this as a pretense to deny my ability to vote, and California deciding I owe them income taxes.

ghaff 7mo ago
State taxes can be a bit of a mess, E&Y (accountants) were enlisted to started looking at expense reports at a long-ago former employer to be sure people were staying within the guidelines. There are "jock" taxes mainly intended for pro athletes and entertainers but they theoretically apply to everyone for even a one night stay in some states. (Shortish stays for "normal" people were ignored but not sure how kosher that actually was.)
- kjellsbells 7mo ago
  you're giving me flashbacks to my time at Microsoft where a one night trip to another state meant hours wrestling with EY's filing system to record the trip and quizzical questions from my accountant about why Microsoft paid $0.23 to South Carolina for my taxes. IIRC it really got going in the pandemic when states realized that all these knowledge workers were earning nice money and not paying a cent in taxes to the state they had run to to get away from the virus.
  - ghaff 7mo ago
    Yeah. This started during the pandemic. And there were some messages from people on internal message boards along the lines of... but... such and such a state has a requirement that taxes be filed for even a day (which, frankly, would have been cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than to pay for my accountant to file an additional state filing). But said employer apparently decided to ignore de minimus travel stuff though I know people who actually spent a lot of time out of state did need to keep track. But, also yeah, MA and NH had a bit of a spat over workers at an MA company who lived in NH who just stopped coming in and therefore stopped filing MA taxes.

HexPhantom 7mo ago

A kid could legitimately split time between two homes or be dropped off by whichever parent is on duty that morning

Zigurd 7mo ago

The American system of school funding strongly encourages pulling up the ladder behind you. Real estate values are influenced by school ratings, too. Hence Karen as-a-service.

nativeit 7mo ago

Major paradigm shift: What if, hear me out, the school administrators talked to the students and their parents? I’ll pause for everyone’s minds to finish blowing.

john_strinlai 7mo ago
which happened in this case! and then the school administrators said, paraphrasing, "despite owning a home in the district, fuck you"

themafia 7mo ago

> This is a huge waste of time/money Right. And when you see someone so dedicated do it there is almost certainly a hidden variable which causes this to occur. I imagine the nature of funding of these schools and the distribution of public monies has a lot to do with it. > ways of combating fraud Imagine being the richest country in the world and _caring_, honestly, about school location "fraud."

angiolillo 7mo ago
The country as a whole may be "rich" in terms of GDP but school districts are funded locally and many towns are struggling or underwater in terms of finances. I lived in a working class town with a school district that built up a great reputation, especially for special needs students, due to the hard work of some amazing teachers and local parents. After I left I found out that the district had to scale back many programs dramatically because the number of students, especially special needs students, was growing significantly faster than the overall tax base and got close to bankrupting the town. Most of that was an increase in the ratio of families (esp special needs families) moving to town for the schools, but apparently there were fraud cases as well. I have sympathy for the incoming families that sought out the best school they could find for their children, but I also sympathize with the existing families who lost the great programs they helped build because they became too successful. A better solution would have been to fund education more equitably at the state level, but that was not a lever that the school district had.
- themafia 7mo ago
  > started growing much faster than the tax base So you have two unaddressed problems. > A better solution would have been to fund education more equitably at the state level Which could only work if the state was "richer" than the local district. So by playing abstract and unnecessary games with money and districting we intentionally prevent schools from accessing the funding which could obviate concerns over this "fraud" issue entirely. > but that was not a lever that the school district had at the time. The idea of a parent "fraudulently" getting their child an education from a "district" is still just hilarious to me. What is the point of this system? To make parents play games or to educate children?