4 ms·

The US has laws to handle stuff like this. The real problem is that the pardon power is completely broken and it needs to be removed.

wil421 7mo ago
The Feds love to wait. I doubt the next president will be as lenient with pardoning. Maybe there’s a market I can bet on pardoning.
- GJim 7mo ago
  Many of us would like you to be right about that. However, the people of the USA voted for Trump. Twice. I fear things have changed and Trump'ism is here to stay.
  - rstuart4133 7mo ago
    > I fear things have changed and Trump'ism is here to stay. The first time they got Trump lite. They didn't like him, and ditched him after one term. The next president has the misfortune to get elected during a worldwide recession. They liked the recession even less than they liked Trump lite. So they re-elected Trump lite. But they've now found the person they re-elected was Trump heavy. He's doubled down on all the things they disliked about Trump lite, and will probably land them in a recession entirely of his own making. I'd be stunned if Trump heavy or anybody following in his footsteps won an election for a decade or two. Memories will have to fade.
    - Spivak 7mo ago
      Guess we'll find out at the midterms if you're right, I certainly hope so. We're at the point where even the major policy differences between Democrats and Republicans are insubstantial compared to just getting people in office that aren't openly mustache twirlingly corrupt.
- saltyoldman 7mo ago
  I would have LOVED to have a Polymarket bet when Biden said he will NOT Pardon his son.
  - saulapremium 7mo ago
    If you have a problem with that, you must be incredibly upset about the current administrations admission of pardons for blatantly corrupt reasons!
    - saltyoldman 7mo ago
      I didn't say I had a problem with that. I said I would have LOVED to have a polymarket bet on it!
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
philipov 7mo ago
Who are you to quote laws to those carrying swords?
- Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago
  The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp. - Terry Pratchett
- shimman 7mo ago
  Don't know why this is getting downvoted, it's well known that DOGE had goons to forcibly remove people that stood in their way.
  - Schmerika 7mo ago
    > Don't know why this is getting downvoted Paul Graham and Garry Tan were both big cheerleaders of DOGE, so, keep that in mind. A shocking number of the biggest stories about DOGE over the past year were flagged here, probably including the stories about goons physically removing people. Posts questioning this suppression/censorship were flagged. Some people like to argue that since any story about Musk becomes toxic - for some reason - it 'makes sense' to flag every story about anything to with him. You know, like Israel, or US torture, or Assange, or Snowden, or Epstein, etc. For we are but naive children here in the tech industry, and must have a safe space to discuss PCB specs and the meaning of 42 without too much 'current affairs', lest the site 'lose its focus'. It's not like almost the entire top of the industry is neck-deep in collaboration with all this or anything, right? ... Anyway, if people here don't know much about DOGE, the massive flagging that's gone on here is probably a big factor as to why.
    - 0xbadcafebee 7mo ago
      Yeah, you can't rely on HN to get important information. It will be flagged to death. There could be a holocaust going on and it'd get flagged for being "controversial".
    - ModernMech 7mo ago
pwillia7 7mo ago
I mean enforcing the laws on the books would be a good start. Corruption quickly breeds more and more corruption if it isn't rooted out and punished. Everyone who isn't corrupt starts losing and the benefits of not being corrupt evaporate
Steuard 7mo ago
In principle, flagrant abuse of the pardon power is blocked by Congress's ability to impeach and remove a President who engages in such abuse. In practice, that has always been an ineffective threat against Presidents who are within days of leaving office anyway. And more importantly, the framers of the Constitution seemed to have entirely failed to imagine a party like today's Republicans who value strict personal loyalty to the President over every other principle of government.
- kjkjadksj 7mo ago
  I wonder how anomalous this presidency really is. Trump is not the first strong man bullheaded president who engaged in cronyism and systemic corruption. Most people don’t know the history of presidents though especially from centuries past. Maybe this broken state of the office we observe today has always been a viable option for people who payed attention enough to see it and are also evil enough to use it. Maybe this power has been specifically maintained intentionally for some time. Like a big open secret for those tasked with approving laws.
  - atmavatar 7mo ago
    Please enlighten us: which former presidents have been similar strong man caricatures engaging in anywhere near the level of cronyism and systemic corruption as the current administration? What precisely did they do which demonstrates such behavior? We've certainly had some colorful presidents in the past, but the current president is engaged in a lot of blatantly impeachable behavior, and as far as I know, we've never had such a passive and complicit Congress before.
    - kjkjadksj 7mo ago
      I’d probably guess there were plenty of bad eggs. Andrew Jackson for example. Who learns about him in school though? Who talks about his administration today? And he probably isn’t the only one either. 1700s government was still in flux with plenty of cases of selfish infamous people and behavior. 1800s worldview among people in power was pretty notoriously ruthless. 1900s not much different. FDR was certainly a strongman above norms too, luckily many of the things he did with his share of political power had great benefits to people.

wil421 7mo ago

The Feds love to wait. I doubt the next president will be as lenient with pardoning. Maybe there’s a market I can bet on pardoning.

GJim 7mo ago
Many of us would like you to be right about that. However, the people of the USA voted for Trump. Twice. I fear things have changed and Trump'ism is here to stay.
- rstuart4133 7mo ago
  > I fear things have changed and Trump'ism is here to stay. The first time they got Trump lite. They didn't like him, and ditched him after one term. The next president has the misfortune to get elected during a worldwide recession. They liked the recession even less than they liked Trump lite. So they re-elected Trump lite. But they've now found the person they re-elected was Trump heavy. He's doubled down on all the things they disliked about Trump lite, and will probably land them in a recession entirely of his own making. I'd be stunned if Trump heavy or anybody following in his footsteps won an election for a decade or two. Memories will have to fade.
  - Spivak 7mo ago
    Guess we'll find out at the midterms if you're right, I certainly hope so. We're at the point where even the major policy differences between Democrats and Republicans are insubstantial compared to just getting people in office that aren't openly mustache twirlingly corrupt.
saltyoldman 7mo ago
I would have LOVED to have a Polymarket bet when Biden said he will NOT Pardon his son.
- saulapremium 7mo ago
  If you have a problem with that, you must be incredibly upset about the current administrations admission of pardons for blatantly corrupt reasons!
  - saltyoldman 7mo ago
    I didn't say I had a problem with that. I said I would have LOVED to have a polymarket bet on it!
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]

philipov 7mo ago

Who are you to quote laws to those carrying swords?

Imustaskforhelp 7mo ago
The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp. - Terry Pratchett
shimman 7mo ago
Don't know why this is getting downvoted, it's well known that DOGE had goons to forcibly remove people that stood in their way.
- Schmerika 7mo ago
  > Don't know why this is getting downvoted Paul Graham and Garry Tan were both big cheerleaders of DOGE, so, keep that in mind. A shocking number of the biggest stories about DOGE over the past year were flagged here, probably including the stories about goons physically removing people. Posts questioning this suppression/censorship were flagged. Some people like to argue that since any story about Musk becomes toxic - for some reason - it 'makes sense' to flag every story about anything to with him. You know, like Israel, or US torture, or Assange, or Snowden, or Epstein, etc. For we are but naive children here in the tech industry, and must have a safe space to discuss PCB specs and the meaning of 42 without too much 'current affairs', lest the site 'lose its focus'. It's not like almost the entire top of the industry is neck-deep in collaboration with all this or anything, right? ... Anyway, if people here don't know much about DOGE, the massive flagging that's gone on here is probably a big factor as to why.
  - 0xbadcafebee 7mo ago
    Yeah, you can't rely on HN to get important information. It will be flagged to death. There could be a holocaust going on and it'd get flagged for being "controversial".
  - ModernMech 7mo ago

pwillia7 7mo ago

I mean enforcing the laws on the books would be a good start. Corruption quickly breeds more and more corruption if it isn't rooted out and punished. Everyone who isn't corrupt starts losing and the benefits of not being corrupt evaporate

Steuard 7mo ago

In principle, flagrant abuse of the pardon power is blocked by Congress's ability to impeach and remove a President who engages in such abuse. In practice, that has always been an ineffective threat against Presidents who are within days of leaving office anyway. And more importantly, the framers of the Constitution seemed to have entirely failed to imagine a party like today's Republicans who value strict personal loyalty to the President over every other principle of government.

kjkjadksj 7mo ago
I wonder how anomalous this presidency really is. Trump is not the first strong man bullheaded president who engaged in cronyism and systemic corruption. Most people don’t know the history of presidents though especially from centuries past. Maybe this broken state of the office we observe today has always been a viable option for people who payed attention enough to see it and are also evil enough to use it. Maybe this power has been specifically maintained intentionally for some time. Like a big open secret for those tasked with approving laws.
- atmavatar 7mo ago
  Please enlighten us: which former presidents have been similar strong man caricatures engaging in anywhere near the level of cronyism and systemic corruption as the current administration? What precisely did they do which demonstrates such behavior? We've certainly had some colorful presidents in the past, but the current president is engaged in a lot of blatantly impeachable behavior, and as far as I know, we've never had such a passive and complicit Congress before.
  - kjkjadksj 7mo ago
    I’d probably guess there were plenty of bad eggs. Andrew Jackson for example. Who learns about him in school though? Who talks about his administration today? And he probably isn’t the only one either. 1700s government was still in flux with plenty of cases of selfish infamous people and behavior. 1800s worldview among people in power was pretty notoriously ruthless. 1900s not much different. FDR was certainly a strongman above norms too, luckily many of the things he did with his share of political power had great benefits to people.