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Roblox is slot machines for kids Games are filled with loot boxes that drop exquisite items on chance. It's a repeated cycle of charging robux only to spend on

by jameson 7mo ago

Roblox is slot machines for kids Games are filled with loot boxes that drop exquisite items on chance. It's a repeated cycle of charging robux only to spend on another slot machine. US regulation is far behind protecting children from such scheme. Japan disallows many forms of such loot boxes due to addictive nature.

Aeolun 7mo ago
It’s not that bad. Sure, all the games allow you to spend money to rapidly get better, but the core gameplay loops work just fine without it.
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  Anecdotally, I have 3 nieces and 2 nephews and only the oldest has avoided Roblox Every Christmas and birthday now is "I want Robux" and they are actively annoyed if they get anything else This thing is bad for children
  - Aeolun 7mo ago
    Pretty sure I was annoyed when I got anything but computer games. Which, I’m pretty certain, adults told me were bad for me.
    - sayamqazi 7mo ago
      You guys were getting presents?
    - pnt12 7mo ago
      Just because two things are "annoying", doesn't mean they have the same ethical problems. The fun single player games only need to convince you they are a fun experience and you should buy them once. Games with loot boxes are trying to convince you every day to spend money on them. Dunno about roblox, but often the items are visible, and "defaults" are often perceived as poor or noobs. We can't be naive: It's a whole other level and companies are spending millions on manipulating kids to spending more and more money.
    - Ferret7446 7mo ago
      Of course a kid is gonna be annoyed if they get something other than what they want, but, to use a hamfisted but scarily apt analogy, are the kids yearning for the drug called sugar or the drug called crack/meth/etc. Both are "bad" but on completely different levels
- jameson 7mo ago
  > games allow you to spend money to rapidly get better Audience is the problem here. It's obviously not a big deal if the platform is targeted for adults, but majority of users are underage. The platform can certainly implement guardrails for the vulnerable users if they wish to
  - Aeolun 7mo ago
    Those guardrails exist. They’re called parents. My son doesn’t have a credit card and therefore doesn’t have robux. Having no robux, he can’t spend it on anything.
  - grvdrm 7mo ago
    Interesting. You don’t think adults have the same problem?
    - Ferret7446 7mo ago
      I can't speak for GP, but at least adults are responsible for their own spending problems
- loloquwowndueo 7mo ago
  Dunno man, when the “core gameplay loop” gets interrupted every 2 minutes with “do you want to pay to win?” Banners and 50% of the screen is covered in ads and trap buttons that pop up a purchase dialog when you press them accidentally (a given on mobile with touch controls), it’s fairly obvious the gameplay loop is the last thing in the developers mind.
- dogleash 7mo ago
  > the core gameplay loops work just fine without it. Of course it's functional, it has to string people along for enough time to get them to start paying. That doesn't mean grinding a system tuned to get you hooked enough to give up and pay is a 'just fine' as a game. It's openly deliberate malicious design.
wj 7mo ago
I have called them casinos for kids elsewhere due to the bright colors, flashing text, and money counters going up, up, up on the screen. And also because my kids can spend tens of dollars in minutes on it.
russelg 7mo ago
>Japan disallows many forms of such loot boxes due to addictive nature. Crazy to say this when they've basically pioneered and perfected gacha games.
- rincebrain 7mo ago
  Both things are true, though. The fact that gacha games are so popular is _why_ they had enough attention to explicitly ban the most toxic patterns at the time. [1] There's an interesting question of how far to push the bans, though - "in theory" your goals should probably be "don't let people prey on addictive behaviors" and "minimize people impulse buying more than they can afford", but the latter especially is...very hard to make an empirical rule for, and then you get into logistics like people just making additional accounts to get around it... [1] - http://www.vg247.com/2012/05/18/kompu-gacha-freemium-systems-banned-in-japan/ http://www.vg247.com/2012/05/18/kompu-gacha-freemium-systems...
rincebrain 7mo ago
I would, I think, probably argue that the problem is less that they're gambling and more that they involve actual money. I think exposing people to addictive mechanics with guard rails is probably useful for teaching you how you respond to them, before you go to Vegas and blow far more than you budgeted. In particular, I don't think you're going to ban addictive things faster than people can build them, and I know you can't rely on parents having conversations with kids, so I feel like all you can do is try to remove the whirring buzzsaw of real money incentives and let people learn that it's sharp, but foam sword sharp, where you can't ruin your life permanently (easily) with it.

by jameson 7mo ago

Aeolun 7mo ago

It’s not that bad. Sure, all the games allow you to spend money to rapidly get better, but the core gameplay loops work just fine without it.

bluefirebrand 7mo ago
Anecdotally, I have 3 nieces and 2 nephews and only the oldest has avoided Roblox Every Christmas and birthday now is "I want Robux" and they are actively annoyed if they get anything else This thing is bad for children
- Aeolun 7mo ago
  Pretty sure I was annoyed when I got anything but computer games. Which, I’m pretty certain, adults told me were bad for me.
  - sayamqazi 7mo ago
    You guys were getting presents?
  - pnt12 7mo ago
    Just because two things are "annoying", doesn't mean they have the same ethical problems. The fun single player games only need to convince you they are a fun experience and you should buy them once. Games with loot boxes are trying to convince you every day to spend money on them. Dunno about roblox, but often the items are visible, and "defaults" are often perceived as poor or noobs. We can't be naive: It's a whole other level and companies are spending millions on manipulating kids to spending more and more money.
  - Ferret7446 7mo ago
    Of course a kid is gonna be annoyed if they get something other than what they want, but, to use a hamfisted but scarily apt analogy, are the kids yearning for the drug called sugar or the drug called crack/meth/etc. Both are "bad" but on completely different levels
jameson 7mo ago
> games allow you to spend money to rapidly get better Audience is the problem here. It's obviously not a big deal if the platform is targeted for adults, but majority of users are underage. The platform can certainly implement guardrails for the vulnerable users if they wish to
- Aeolun 7mo ago
  Those guardrails exist. They’re called parents. My son doesn’t have a credit card and therefore doesn’t have robux. Having no robux, he can’t spend it on anything.
- grvdrm 7mo ago
  Interesting. You don’t think adults have the same problem?
  - Ferret7446 7mo ago
    I can't speak for GP, but at least adults are responsible for their own spending problems
loloquwowndueo 7mo ago
Dunno man, when the “core gameplay loop” gets interrupted every 2 minutes with “do you want to pay to win?” Banners and 50% of the screen is covered in ads and trap buttons that pop up a purchase dialog when you press them accidentally (a given on mobile with touch controls), it’s fairly obvious the gameplay loop is the last thing in the developers mind.
dogleash 7mo ago
> the core gameplay loops work just fine without it. Of course it's functional, it has to string people along for enough time to get them to start paying. That doesn't mean grinding a system tuned to get you hooked enough to give up and pay is a 'just fine' as a game. It's openly deliberate malicious design.

wj 7mo ago

I have called them casinos for kids elsewhere due to the bright colors, flashing text, and money counters going up, up, up on the screen. And also because my kids can spend tens of dollars in minutes on it.

russelg 7mo ago

>Japan disallows many forms of such loot boxes due to addictive nature. Crazy to say this when they've basically pioneered and perfected gacha games.

rincebrain 7mo ago
Both things are true, though. The fact that gacha games are so popular is _why_ they had enough attention to explicitly ban the most toxic patterns at the time. [1] There's an interesting question of how far to push the bans, though - "in theory" your goals should probably be "don't let people prey on addictive behaviors" and "minimize people impulse buying more than they can afford", but the latter especially is...very hard to make an empirical rule for, and then you get into logistics like people just making additional accounts to get around it... [1] - http://www.vg247.com/2012/05/18/kompu-gacha-freemium-systems-banned-in-japan/ http://www.vg247.com/2012/05/18/kompu-gacha-freemium-systems...

rincebrain 7mo ago

I would, I think, probably argue that the problem is less that they're gambling and more that they involve actual money. I think exposing people to addictive mechanics with guard rails is probably useful for teaching you how you respond to them, before you go to Vegas and blow far more than you budgeted. In particular, I don't think you're going to ban addictive things faster than people can build them, and I know you can't rely on parents having conversations with kids, so I feel like all you can do is try to remove the whirring buzzsaw of real money incentives and let people learn that it's sharp, but foam sword sharp, where you can't ruin your life permanently (easily) with it.