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But the reason for the ruling is that if your teen runs a red, YOU get points on your license.

by floren 7mo ago

crote 7mo ago
Not if the teen takes responsibility. So don't loan out your car to people who aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions. Surely that's not a massive burden?
- xeromal 7mo ago
  Is that just?
  - californical 7mo ago
    Yes, vehicle ownership is a level of responsibility, I believe it is just to be accountable for what happens with it.
    - iamnothere 7mo ago
      This is unjust BS and discriminates against poor families. Using this line of thinking, it will be a short time until you’re responsible for what a criminal does with your stolen vehicle; after all, you failed to secure it. I hope you get exactly what you’re asking for, and all the implications thereof (but in a state far from me). I feel certain you won’t enjoy it.
      - californical 7mo ago
        Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different, as long as you’re reasonable about it. Leaving an unlocked car with keys in the ignition outside of a bank being robbed is different from someone breaking the window and spoofing your fob, and both of those are different from willingly giving the vehicle to someone. Also I mentioned criminal vs civil penalties being treated differently - I don’t believe the same scenarios apply to both. AND if you can prove that you lent a car to someone who got you a speeding ticket, then it’s on them - just that the owner of the car is responsible by default. I hate these arguments that doing anything to restrict the deadliest machines in history is impossible because it discriminates against the poor. It doesn’t. But having a society where driving is the only option does, so I am all in favor of alternatives. But I also think that we should improve safety for cars when possible as well
        bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        > Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different But someone borrowing it with permission isn't?
        californical 7mo ago
        Yes - if you’ve intentionally given them access, then it is your job to ensure they use it responsibly

But the reason for the ruling is that if your teen runs a red, YOU get points on your license.

by floren 7mo ago

But the reason for the ruling is that if your teen runs a red, YOU get points on your license.

crote 7mo ago

Not if the teen takes responsibility. So don't loan out your car to people who aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions. Surely that's not a massive burden?

xeromal 7mo ago
Is that just?
- californical 7mo ago
  Yes, vehicle ownership is a level of responsibility, I believe it is just to be accountable for what happens with it.
  - iamnothere 7mo ago
    This is unjust BS and discriminates against poor families. Using this line of thinking, it will be a short time until you’re responsible for what a criminal does with your stolen vehicle; after all, you failed to secure it. I hope you get exactly what you’re asking for, and all the implications thereof (but in a state far from me). I feel certain you won’t enjoy it.
    - californical 7mo ago
      Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different, as long as you’re reasonable about it. Leaving an unlocked car with keys in the ignition outside of a bank being robbed is different from someone breaking the window and spoofing your fob, and both of those are different from willingly giving the vehicle to someone. Also I mentioned criminal vs civil penalties being treated differently - I don’t believe the same scenarios apply to both. AND if you can prove that you lent a car to someone who got you a speeding ticket, then it’s on them - just that the owner of the car is responsible by default. I hate these arguments that doing anything to restrict the deadliest machines in history is impossible because it discriminates against the poor. It doesn’t. But having a society where driving is the only option does, so I am all in favor of alternatives. But I also think that we should improve safety for cars when possible as well
      - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
        > Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different But someone borrowing it with permission isn't?
        californical 7mo ago
        Yes - if you’ve intentionally given them access, then it is your job to ensure they use it responsibly