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No more lending your car to a friend in need, no more letting your children learn to drive on your car or borrow it ever. Families must now own and insure a car

No more lending your car to a friend in need, no more letting your children learn to drive on your car or borrow it ever. Families must now own and insure a car for every individual driver because we can't be bothered to find robust solutions for traffic enforcement Shift the problem onto individuals, make it a burden for the public. Typical HN attitude

n8cpdx 8mo ago
Or you could ask your friends who borrow your car not to be dipshits who run red lights. If you get a ticket for your teen running a red light, you can have your teen pay for it. Might be a good learning lesson.
- floren 8mo ago
  But the reason for the ruling is that if your teen runs a red, YOU get points on your license.
  - crote 8mo ago
    Not if the teen takes responsibility. So don't loan out your car to people who aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions. Surely that's not a massive burden?
    - xeromal 8mo ago
      Is that just?
      - californical 8mo ago
        Yes, vehicle ownership is a level of responsibility, I believe it is just to be accountable for what happens with it.
        iamnothere 8mo ago
        This is unjust BS and discriminates against poor families. Using this line of thinking, it will be a short time until you’re responsible for what a criminal does with your stolen vehicle; after all, you failed to secure it. I hope you get exactly what you’re asking for, and all the implications thereof (but in a state far from me). I feel certain you won’t enjoy it.
        californical 8mo ago
        Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different, as long as you’re reasonable about it. Leaving an unlocked car with keys in the ignition outside of a bank being robbed is different from someone breaking the window and spoofing your fob, and both of those are different from willingly giving the vehicle to someone. Also I mentioned criminal vs civil penalties being treated differently - I don’t believe the same scenarios apply to both. AND if you can prove that you lent a car to someone who got you a speeding ticket, then it’s on them - just that the owner of the car is responsible by default. I hate these arguments that doing anything to restrict the deadliest machines in history is impossible because it discriminates against the poor. It doesn’t. But having a society where driving is the only option does, so I am all in favor of alternatives. But I also think that we should improve safety for cars when possible as well
        bluefirebrand 8mo ago
        > Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different But someone borrowing it with permission isn't?
        californical 8mo ago
        Yes - if you’ve intentionally given them access, then it is your job to ensure they use it responsibly
smelendez 8mo ago
I mean, if your kid or friend gets a parking ticket in your car you probably already pay it and collect from them. It doesn’t seem that different to extend this to camera tickets.
californical 8mo ago
Driving cars is a dangerous activity that deserves higher levels of accountability and responsibility. It is commonplace to drive, but has high potential for danger and death. It seems ok to me to have a level of care required for owning a vehicle, and that includes being mindful of who you share your vehicle with. Same thing with guns - if you blindly lend a gun to an acquaintance and they shoot a school, you will absolutely be charged with some crimes, either accessory to murder or manslaughter, where you have to prove that you weren’t being negligent by giving it to them. Guns are dangerous and owning them bears a higher level of responsibility to the owner. Vehicles kill more people, they also deserve responsibility to own. If somebody breaks laws with your vehicle, it’s your responsibility by default unless you prove otherwise.

n8cpdx 8mo ago

Or you could ask your friends who borrow your car not to be dipshits who run red lights. If you get a ticket for your teen running a red light, you can have your teen pay for it. Might be a good learning lesson.

floren 8mo ago
But the reason for the ruling is that if your teen runs a red, YOU get points on your license.
- crote 8mo ago
  Not if the teen takes responsibility. So don't loan out your car to people who aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions. Surely that's not a massive burden?
  - xeromal 8mo ago
    Is that just?
    - californical 8mo ago
      Yes, vehicle ownership is a level of responsibility, I believe it is just to be accountable for what happens with it.
      - iamnothere 8mo ago
        This is unjust BS and discriminates against poor families. Using this line of thinking, it will be a short time until you’re responsible for what a criminal does with your stolen vehicle; after all, you failed to secure it. I hope you get exactly what you’re asking for, and all the implications thereof (but in a state far from me). I feel certain you won’t enjoy it.
        californical 8mo ago
        Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different, as long as you’re reasonable about it. Leaving an unlocked car with keys in the ignition outside of a bank being robbed is different from someone breaking the window and spoofing your fob, and both of those are different from willingly giving the vehicle to someone. Also I mentioned criminal vs civil penalties being treated differently - I don’t believe the same scenarios apply to both. AND if you can prove that you lent a car to someone who got you a speeding ticket, then it’s on them - just that the owner of the car is responsible by default. I hate these arguments that doing anything to restrict the deadliest machines in history is impossible because it discriminates against the poor. It doesn’t. But having a society where driving is the only option does, so I am all in favor of alternatives. But I also think that we should improve safety for cars when possible as well
        bluefirebrand 8mo ago
        > Obviously someone stealing a vehicle is different But someone borrowing it with permission isn't?
        californical 8mo ago
        Yes - if you’ve intentionally given them access, then it is your job to ensure they use it responsibly

smelendez 8mo ago

I mean, if your kid or friend gets a parking ticket in your car you probably already pay it and collect from them. It doesn’t seem that different to extend this to camera tickets.

californical 8mo ago

Driving cars is a dangerous activity that deserves higher levels of accountability and responsibility. It is commonplace to drive, but has high potential for danger and death. It seems ok to me to have a level of care required for owning a vehicle, and that includes being mindful of who you share your vehicle with. Same thing with guns - if you blindly lend a gun to an acquaintance and they shoot a school, you will absolutely be charged with some crimes, either accessory to murder or manslaughter, where you have to prove that you weren’t being negligent by giving it to them. Guns are dangerous and owning them bears a higher level of responsibility to the owner. Vehicles kill more people, they also deserve responsibility to own. If somebody breaks laws with your vehicle, it’s your responsibility by default unless you prove otherwise.