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New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
- hansbo 8mo agoGestation crates are up there among the most immoral things created by man.
- Ancapistani 8mo agoIn their current implementation, yeah, they’re pretty bad. There is a need for something like it, though. A sow will absolutely lay down on her piglets and suffocate them.
- hangonhn 8mo ago> A sow will absolutely lay down on her piglets and suffocate them. This makes me really curious because that behavior seems very maladaptive for a species. That leads me to wonder if something else, ie. the environment or domestication, is leading to this behavior rather than pigs being really, really prone to wiping out their own species. Does anyone know why they do this in a farm environment?
- jonah 8mo agoBoth things you mentioned.
- barbazoo 8mo agoWe're also genetically engineered them to be much heavier than they would be naturally.
- Ancapistani 8mo agoThat depends on the breed, but sure. I’ve not seen it happen at noticeably lower rates for less sturdy breeds for whatever it’s worth.
- shakna 8mo agoPigs are adapted to singular survival. A stressed sow will often eat the piglets. And that stress can be being a mother for the first time. There are a lot of environmental factors, like snuggling for warmth being unsafe. But by and large... Pigs give birth in numbers. They can afford for half to die, and still proliferate. They don't need to be 'good parents'.
- Ancapistani 8mo agoThey definitely do it in the wild as well, though likely at lower rates. They reproduce very quickly - evolution is a numbers game, and yield isn’t part of the equation.
- AngryData 8mo agoPigs breed like rabbits so their evolutionary path hasn't been to ensure individuals survive at the highest possible rate, their path was to have a dozen babies at a time so that even if 80% of them get killed or eaten, their population still grows and thrives. For a farmer losing 20% of their pigs because the mother sat on babies and suffocated them is a massive loss of money, for a wild pig it doesn't matter as much because 3x more will get eaten by predators and there is already another dozen on the way within a week or two of giving birth to the first litter. Some of the loss likely is due to keeping them penned up, however there are also losses for not keeping them penned up and letting baby pigs run among a herd of many adult pigs, some of which will attempt to kill piglets, especially females who have not had piglets yet. Pigs can be absolute viscous as hell and will readily eat other living animals if they think they can get away with it, including other pigs, and some mother pigs have been known to cannibalize their young even under ideal situations. Pig farmers have themselves been killed by pigs from passing out or getting knocked out in pig pens and the pigs seeing them as a free meal not to be wasted.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- bayarearefugee 8mo agoHumanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event. This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.
- abound 8mo agoOne of my favorite questions to ask people is something like: "Imagine a button appears in front of you. Pressing it will snap all human beings painlessly out of existence. Do you push the button?" Some people get caught in minutiae about downstream effects, I tell them it can go however they want (house pets are free or gone too, planes land harmlessly, etc) In my circles, I've found it's about 50/50 button pushers to non-button pushers. Perhaps unsurprisingly, vegetarians are more likely to be button pushers.
- mock-possum 8mo agoGod what an awful prospect. How about when you push the button it only removes the button pushers, so the rest of us are free to continue enjoying our existence.
- itsanaccount 8mo agoBecause that line of "enjoying your existence" making no mention of the monumental harm we cause to every biome on the planet is exactly the kind of selfishness that the button pushers would like to eradicate.
- greygoo222 8mo agoBiomes are not moral subjects and don't deserve consideration. (Pigs are).
- Capricorn2481 8mo ago> Biomes are not moral subjects and don't deserve consideration. (Pigs are). Where do you think animals live?
- nekusar 8mo agoFarming practices are already absolutely terrible. And for reasons of arbitrary weight increase, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ractopamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ractopamine is used in the USA. Doesnt degrade when cooked, so humans also get fat from it amongst other bad side effects. Banned in most countries, but not the USA. This is also why pork export is banned in most countries. I know 1 person who is "allergic to pork". But European pork is fine. Even Canadian pork is fine. But what's different with US pork? Ractopamine. To me, this is yet another reason why capitalism initially was great at making an economy, but profit-seeking behavior gets legally and ethically worse and one trades ethics for money.
- bananalychee 8mo agoRactopamine is authorized in Canada per the article you linked.
- 1234letshaveatw 8mo agoLet's not let that pesky detail get in the way of the USA bad narrative he has going.
- enaaem 8mo agoStill banned China, Russia and the EU...
- Insanity 8mo agoLooking at the stuff China puts in their food (like the actual instant noodles), definitely a red flag if even they ban it. Generally I look at EU for what's good/bad to consume though. It's scary how much stuff is banned there that's in everyday US products.
- jonah 8mo agoI generally think that as well and so was surprised to read that they're planning to not label CRISPER fruits as such. "European Union’s Parliament and Council, the bloc’s governing body, reached a provisional deal in December to “simplify” the process for marketing plants bred through new genomic techniques, such as by scrapping the need to label them any differently from conventional ones." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47271338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47271338
- Havoc 8mo agoThe sooner we get to true lab grown meat the better Meat is nice but would be better if we can skip the whole suffering thing
- okokwhatever 8mo agoI'll be pleased to let you eat that for me.
- Havoc 8mo agoI mean if it’s functionally identical then I would. Not super interested in pink slime style concoctions either
- globular-toast 8mo agoIt's not even nice. People ate meat because fresh fruit and vegetables weren't available all year round or even at all. All good food has plants to make it taste nice. You can easily just skip the meat and go straight for the flavour.
- snowe2010 8mo agoYour comment makes no sense. If plants weren’t around for humans to eat then how did the animals humans eat survive? Humans eat animals because they are a denser faster nutrition than plants. More bang for your buck. Trying to act like humans “only eat animals because” is ignoring reality.
- pmarreck 8mo agoThe Alaskan word for "vegetables" is literally "boring food"
- givemeethekeys 8mo agoDo you live in Alaska?
- dehrmann 8mo ago
- aquir 8mo agoAnyone who's ever looked after and cared for pigs knows that this is very-very cruel. I would do the same with those humans(?) who wants this. Greed over everything. Disgusting
- SunshineTheCat 8mo agoDoes anyone else ever find it odd that in posts like this the person posts a sad picture of a pig instead of a screenshot of the page of the bill they're talking about? I think "a provision that would condemn millions of pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates" is in fact horrific, however, outrage is the currency on places like X. Posting a page number sounds specific, but then why not post the page (or quote it)? Particularly in any even remotely political environment where the default is "vote for (or oppose) this bill or you want [insert cute animal, baby, person, minority group] to die." Just a tiny bit of source referencing could go a long way to help people better understand what you want them to support (or oppose).
- jagged-chisel 8mo agoWhoa there - can’t shape public sentiment if you let people go read it for themselves.
- gowld 8mo ago2 seconds on Google leads you the sponsor of the bill bragging about doing what the OP is complaining about: : https://hinson.house.gov/media/press-releases/hinson-introduces-save-our-bacon-act-block-californias-radical-prop-12-protect https://hinson.house.gov/media/press-releases/hinson-introdu... The insane language in the sponsor's own press release tells me all I need to know about who the evil side on this bill is. California prop 12: https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/nu/fd/mb-fdp-03-2022-a.asp https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/nu/fd/mb-fdp-03-2022-a.asp
- djcannabiz 8mo agofwiw, i found it helpful, i had no idea what a gestation crate is. i don’t think the photo is sad or manipulative, the sad part is what is being done to the pigs! and seeing a photo of what is done to the pigs is all i needed to make up my mind. it’s like the difference between posting a document that references “enhanced interrogation techniques” vs seeing a photo of what was actually done, it has a very different impact. i agree some kind of a citation would be nice though, so i don’t have to go digging about what to say when i contact my representative about.
- lux-lux-lux 8mo ago
- aaron695 8mo ago[dead]
- megabless123 8mo agohttps://xcancel.com/Lewis_Bollard/status/2030985704902099335#m https://xcancel.com/Lewis_Bollard/status/2030985704902099335...
- criddell 8mo agoHere's a link to the bill if you are interested in who sponsored and cosponsored it. It's a total of 24 people, so it had a fair bit of support. If you live in the district of one of these people you might consider contacting them to let them know your opinion. https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4673/cosponsors https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4673...
- diacritical 8mo agoThe "R-" after their names means they're all Republicans, right?
- evan_ 8mo agoYes, [R-IA-4] means Republican from Iowa's 4th Congressional District.
- red-iron-pine 8mo agoif it's a farm bill you can almost always assume R R- means Republican
- butILoveLife 8mo agoI find it odd we need legislation to prevent this. There are not enough consumers to care? Or maybe with legislation we get better outcomes due to scaling effects? If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat? I'm sure small labs are doing this, but if we are at the point of legislation, I imagine there is enough willpower to solve this problem rather than bandaids.
- stetrain 8mo agoConsumers probably don't know all of the conditions involved in making any of the products they buy. That information is generally not on the label, and even environmental and conditions based labels are often vague and hard to interpret. Also in an economy of rising costs, people are going to choose affordable options even if they might be vaguely aware of worse conditions happening somewhere else, far away from the grocery store aisle where they are making that choice for their family.
- post-it 8mo ago> If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat? This is the kind of "big government libertarian" thinking that you only find on HN. It's like virtue signalling but the virtue is contrarianism. What you've suggested is more complicated, less ethical, less effective, and likely to be opposed by just about everyone across the political spectrum.
- butILoveLife 8mo agoLmao, you did describe me so hard. But I think I'd push back that this is less ethical. All sorts of things are unpopular, but the masses can't logic their way through it.
- hackable_sand 8mo agoEverything you suggested are bandaids
- ryandrake 8mo agoIf the billionaires in power thought that they could grow their wealth 1% more by forcing the rest of us humans into gestation crates, they would do it in a heartbeat.
- doublerabbit 8mo agoDon't they already do that? The same as the office cubicle. Work, Sleep, Eat. Your limited freedom is controlled by money which is earned by being forced to work in an office. The difference is your allowed to go home at X but must return at Y.
- metalman 8mo agocrates are wastefull , gestation tubes, amputate there irrelevant legs, and keep them in nice cozy tubes.
- hermannj314 8mo agoPigs outnumber the humans 7-to-1 in Iowa, but they don't vote so here we are. As an Iowan, it is obligatory to show love for Herbert Hoover and our pig population when called upon.
- jpfromlondon 8mo agosome pigs vote
- gowld 8mo agoAshley Hinson, sponsor of Save Our Bacon Act, endorses bombing people thought to be dangerous. Pig-torturers are dangerous. https://www.kcrg.com/2026/03/06/rep-hinson-speaks-iran-conflict-amana-whirlpool-layoffs/ https://www.kcrg.com/2026/03/06/rep-hinson-speaks-iran-confl...
- aristofun 8mo agoI can understand and respect no meat people’s position (vegans etc), because it is consistent. Even if I disagree generally. But how can I comprehend people who eat meat and okay with killing animals, but get outraged by so and so practices of growing them? Isn’t it a textbook definition of inconsistency and hypocrisy?
- xboxnolifes 8mo agoWhere is the inconsistency in being ok with killing an animal and eating it and wanting the time leading up to their death to not be misery?
- aristofun 8mo agoHow it can be more miserable than it already is - being animal slave from birth to guaranteed death (don’t tell me animals can’t feel it from adjacent room/building)?
- joegibbs 8mo agoThey don't get killed adjacent to the farm, the abattoir is usually far away from it, you put them on a truck to send them there. They wouldn't care about being a slave from birth, they don't have the concept. A cow is happy to be eating grass and chewing cud, it doesn't have any highminded ideas about escaping to live a better life.
- aristofun 8mo ago> they don't have the concept And yet those people claim they have the concept of suffering (not physical pain). Don’t you see inconsistency here?
- AngryData 8mo agoDepending on the farm of course, animals can be extremely happy living a domesticated life. For the first 30 years of my life I raised my own beef, those cows only stayed fenced in because they didn't feel a need to leave. How do I know this? Because as soon as the field they were in had grass under 4 inches to chew at their leisure they would walk up to a fence and push it right over like it wasn't there, then stand 5 feet over the fence chewing fresh grass until you shooed them back inside. If you weren't on top of rotating pasture you would get home to see them happily chewing the grass in your front yard. They were treated not much different than a dog that eats grass, and had no idea they were food. The worst they knew is sometimes a new calf would appear, sometimes an old cow would be loaded up and drove away. All of them named, although they were mostly on-the-nose, our biggest cow was 2400 pounds and we called him Big Mac. All that said, that is nothing what factory farming is like which is what most people are eating their food from. But there are ways to raise food animals "humanely", we did it for thousands of years up until the industrial revolution because it was the only way we knew how or could manage them. Without solid walls, hefty steel bars, and a cocktail of drugs and antibiotics when disease inevitably infects those overcrowded facilities, it is pretty difficult to keep most animals contained if they aren't happy, domesticated or not.
- wktmeow 8mo agoStop eating them if you give a shit then
- silexia 8mo agoI just raised, slaughtered, and butchered five pigs myself. My pigs took longer to raise because it is winter here and I gave them lots of room to run. The pigs had a good life right up until their kill time. The reason pork is so cheap is that overseas meat providers can break all of these humane rules we have in the USA. We badly need high tariffs so businesses don't just go around all of our environmental and labor protection laws by importing products from overseas.
- xtiansimon 8mo agoSounds like veal, which I won’t eat. https://www.humaneworld.org/en/blog/heres-why-pork-new-veal https://www.humaneworld.org/en/blog/heres-why-pork-new-veal