6 ms·

> Batteries are still too heavy > Changing. Rapidly. It doesn't matter how rapidly they are changing; the original comment was saying that they are too heavy

by lambda 14y ago

> Batteries are still too heavy > Changing. Rapidly. It doesn't matter how rapidly they are changing; the original comment was saying that they are too heavy now. You can hypothesize about where they will be in 5 years, but that's uncertain and doesn't apply to cars that are available now. >take too long to charge > Improving, rapidly. Much more rapidly than, say, gas mileage. Again, rate of improvement doesn't have much to do with what's available now. And even if it is improving now, where will it top out? I can fill my tank in a minute and a half at the pump; will I ever be able to fully charge a car in that amount of time? > Sorry to be a broken record, but this too is improving rapidly. And again, it doesn't matter how fast it's improving; what matters is whether in the end, it will wind up such that it's cheaper than fuel-powered cars. > Tesla's range is already over 250 miles; this is getting very close to that of many gas guzzlers. And again, this is rapidly improving, even though we're not working very hard on it as a society. Imagine what would happen if we tried! This doesn't matter to me if I need to take a 500 mile trip. Then, instead of just filling up for a minute or two at the pump, I have to wait for hours for a charge every couple hundred miles. > Uh, you can transport electricity to people, too. We have power lines for that. It's a lot easier to clear a road to get trucks past than it is to repair a full power grid. > Charging time: This doesn't have to get much better at all; you can recharge at night. No, I can't. I don't have a parking space where I live. I have to park on the street, and can't rely on being able to park in front of my house. Unless we get recharge stations installed at every parking space, an electric car will never be practical for me.

stretchwithme 14y ago
The important thing is that those who believe that electric cars are viable be able to finance the enterprise. The sooner the taxpayer is no longer forced to subsidize them, the better.
- evgen 14y ago
  When do I get to opt out of subsidizing ICE cars and the infrastructure needed to keep them on the road?
  - pstuart 14y ago
    Isn't much of the subsidizing of infrastructure (roads) via fuel taxes? How should EVs be taxed?
    - stretchwithme 14y ago
      Good point. If fuel taxes pay for roads, how will electric car owners pay for their share of the wear and tear?
  - stretchwithme 14y ago
    Hopefully soon. Its wrong to subsidy the automobile, whether it is electric or ICE powered. Yes, we do pay gas taxes, put I doubt they are enough. And even if they were, it makes no sense to charge the same regardless of when one travels. Most of the road building is to accommodate rush hour traffic. It makes sense to more at that time, just as hotels charge more when demand is high. The way roads are currently paid for winds up wasting enormous amounts of time at rush hour. Charging a price that reduces the traffic to the level that the roads can efficiently handle will save everybody a lot of time. Of course, that issue has nothing to do with how cars are powered.
jblow 14y ago
What does "the batteries are too heavy" even mean? Too heavy for what? Tesla just released a really big car with a heavy battery that goes 265 miles on a charge (under the very strict new EPA rating; at older methods of measuring range this number would be much higher). So I ask the batteries are too heavy for what exactly? Also, if you are paying attention, you know that Tesla has just opened to the public a number of Supercharger stations that will charge the Model S battery 50% of the way in about 20 minutes. So your complaint of "wait hours for a charge" is already solved, today, in 2012, at least if you live in California (and Tesla plans to expand the Supercharger network rapidly). There have been anti-EV arguments for years, but the arguments keep changing, which is how you know that EVs have won. The main argument used to be that EVs would never go far enough, that people would have too much range anxiety. That has been solved. Then the argument was that the cars are too expensive. That is in the process of being solved right now, as you see from Roadster->Model S. There are other problems but they are much smaller. "I park on the street so I don't have a place to charge my car" is not very hard to solve: it is obviously just a matter of will.
- klinquist 14y ago
  Not only do the Supercharger stations charge the batteries rapidly, they charge them for FREE and the electricity is from the SUN, not coal..
kamaal 14y ago
Just imagine if people in 80's had a similar attitude about internet, where would we be now? If we were to wait for things to get perfectly ready. 90% of the things in this world would never get ready at all.
- speleding 14y ago
  However, part of the perception that EV cars are almost here is caused by people having gotten used to the blistering pace of innovation in IT. Batteries to heavy? Mwah, "wait a few years and it will be good enough". In reality, if you look at the weight/power density curve of batteries it has been improving at a pace that 10 times slower than what happened in IT. So it may take decades more to get where we need to be. Just trying to be realistic here.
- twoodfin 14y ago
  Note that no one had to be given a $5000 tax credit to buy a PC, a modem, and an AOL account.
  - tomelgin 14y ago
    No, but most of the early infrastructure for the internet was publicly-funded (between government labs and universities).
lloeki 14y ago
> the original comment was saying that they are too heavy now. I beg to differ: > The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. The comment is arguing that electric cars are not the future because batteries and energy delivery and what not is not ready now. Guess what, now is not the future. It would be like arguing that ICE cars were not the future in the 19th century.

by lambda 14y ago

stretchwithme 14y ago

The important thing is that those who believe that electric cars are viable be able to finance the enterprise. The sooner the taxpayer is no longer forced to subsidize them, the better.

evgen 14y ago
When do I get to opt out of subsidizing ICE cars and the infrastructure needed to keep them on the road?
- pstuart 14y ago
  Isn't much of the subsidizing of infrastructure (roads) via fuel taxes? How should EVs be taxed?
  - stretchwithme 14y ago
    Good point. If fuel taxes pay for roads, how will electric car owners pay for their share of the wear and tear?
- stretchwithme 14y ago
  Hopefully soon. Its wrong to subsidy the automobile, whether it is electric or ICE powered. Yes, we do pay gas taxes, put I doubt they are enough. And even if they were, it makes no sense to charge the same regardless of when one travels. Most of the road building is to accommodate rush hour traffic. It makes sense to more at that time, just as hotels charge more when demand is high. The way roads are currently paid for winds up wasting enormous amounts of time at rush hour. Charging a price that reduces the traffic to the level that the roads can efficiently handle will save everybody a lot of time. Of course, that issue has nothing to do with how cars are powered.

jblow 14y ago

What does "the batteries are too heavy" even mean? Too heavy for what? Tesla just released a really big car with a heavy battery that goes 265 miles on a charge (under the very strict new EPA rating; at older methods of measuring range this number would be much higher). So I ask the batteries are too heavy for what exactly? Also, if you are paying attention, you know that Tesla has just opened to the public a number of Supercharger stations that will charge the Model S battery 50% of the way in about 20 minutes. So your complaint of "wait hours for a charge" is already solved, today, in 2012, at least if you live in California (and Tesla plans to expand the Supercharger network rapidly). There have been anti-EV arguments for years, but the arguments keep changing, which is how you know that EVs have won. The main argument used to be that EVs would never go far enough, that people would have too much range anxiety. That has been solved. Then the argument was that the cars are too expensive. That is in the process of being solved right now, as you see from Roadster->Model S. There are other problems but they are much smaller. "I park on the street so I don't have a place to charge my car" is not very hard to solve: it is obviously just a matter of will.

klinquist 14y ago
Not only do the Supercharger stations charge the batteries rapidly, they charge them for FREE and the electricity is from the SUN, not coal..

kamaal 14y ago

Just imagine if people in 80's had a similar attitude about internet, where would we be now? If we were to wait for things to get perfectly ready. 90% of the things in this world would never get ready at all.

speleding 14y ago
However, part of the perception that EV cars are almost here is caused by people having gotten used to the blistering pace of innovation in IT. Batteries to heavy? Mwah, "wait a few years and it will be good enough". In reality, if you look at the weight/power density curve of batteries it has been improving at a pace that 10 times slower than what happened in IT. So it may take decades more to get where we need to be. Just trying to be realistic here.
twoodfin 14y ago
Note that no one had to be given a $5000 tax credit to buy a PC, a modem, and an AOL account.
- tomelgin 14y ago
  No, but most of the early infrastructure for the internet was publicly-funded (between government labs and universities).

lloeki 14y ago

> the original comment was saying that they are too heavy now. I beg to differ: > The Tesla Model S is a great-looking car but, unlike some, I still don't see electric cars as being the future. The comment is arguing that electric cars are not the future because batteries and energy delivery and what not is not ready now. Guess what, now is not the future. It would be like arguing that ICE cars were not the future in the 19th century.