4 ms·

What’s wrong with nuclear energy?

disgruntledphd2 8mo ago
Its really, really, really expensive to build. And people are (mostly irrationally) terrified of it, which matters in democracies.
brohee 8mo ago
Not cost competitive with solar+batteries in many locales (less so the closer to the poles), and no learning curve, if anything a negative learning curve, nuclear never was more expensive than new nuclear. And off course societal (and geopolitical) acceptance issues.
- catlifeonmars 8mo ago
  The cost competitiveness and societal issues make sense (though I suspect some of the cost is being externalized in terms of materials extraction and manufacturing). I don’t understand what you mean by “no learning curve”. Do you mean that the learning curve is particularly steep for plant operators?
  - brohee 8mo ago
    Sorry, the manufacturing learning curve. The most widgets you make, the cheapest they get. The effect was absolutely stunning for batteries and solar panels (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-of-lithium-ion-battery-cells https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-of-lithium-ion-batt...). We make too few nuclear power plants for them to have a noticeable learning curve, and recently each subsequent one ends up more expensive than the latest, notably because of safety regulation. Korea and I think China had the best success in that regard (and France in the 80s) by being able to make real series, but you don't really see those now except maybe China. More here: https://ourworldindata.org/learning-curve https://ourworldindata.org/learning-curve
- glenstein 8mo ago
  >And off course societal (and geopolitical) acceptance issues. Right. One thing I've rarely heard emphasized is that, while nuclear power is not at all the same as nuclear weapons, it's still infrastructure that can be repurposed from one to the other. A world where nuclear is the predominant base load power source is a world where nuclear weapons are more accessible due to the proliferation of sibling technologies.
  - sh34r 8mo ago
    I don’t believe this is true of modern thorium reactors.
    - catlifeonmars 8mo ago
      I’m very optimistic on the future of small modular thorium reactors
acdha 8mo ago
It’s super expensive and it takes forever to build—so much so that fossil fuel companies fund “libertarian” voices to use it as an attack on environmentalists because nuclear means decades of unabated fossil fuel sales. If you commit to solar or wind, you start cutting into their business within as little as months.

Its really, really, really expensive to build. And people are (mostly irrationally) terrified of it, which matters in democracies.

brohee 8mo ago

Not cost competitive with solar+batteries in many locales (less so the closer to the poles), and no learning curve, if anything a negative learning curve, nuclear never was more expensive than new nuclear. And off course societal (and geopolitical) acceptance issues.

catlifeonmars 8mo ago
The cost competitiveness and societal issues make sense (though I suspect some of the cost is being externalized in terms of materials extraction and manufacturing). I don’t understand what you mean by “no learning curve”. Do you mean that the learning curve is particularly steep for plant operators?
- brohee 8mo ago
  Sorry, the manufacturing learning curve. The most widgets you make, the cheapest they get. The effect was absolutely stunning for batteries and solar panels (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-of-lithium-ion-battery-cells https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/price-of-lithium-ion-batt...). We make too few nuclear power plants for them to have a noticeable learning curve, and recently each subsequent one ends up more expensive than the latest, notably because of safety regulation. Korea and I think China had the best success in that regard (and France in the 80s) by being able to make real series, but you don't really see those now except maybe China. More here: https://ourworldindata.org/learning-curve https://ourworldindata.org/learning-curve
glenstein 8mo ago
>And off course societal (and geopolitical) acceptance issues. Right. One thing I've rarely heard emphasized is that, while nuclear power is not at all the same as nuclear weapons, it's still infrastructure that can be repurposed from one to the other. A world where nuclear is the predominant base load power source is a world where nuclear weapons are more accessible due to the proliferation of sibling technologies.
- sh34r 8mo ago
  I don’t believe this is true of modern thorium reactors.
  - catlifeonmars 8mo ago
    I’m very optimistic on the future of small modular thorium reactors

acdha 8mo ago

It’s super expensive and it takes forever to build—so much so that fossil fuel companies fund “libertarian” voices to use it as an attack on environmentalists because nuclear means decades of unabated fossil fuel sales. If you commit to solar or wind, you start cutting into their business within as little as months.