4 ms·

that's pretty obvious to everyone in the US what's not obvious to most people - is how e.g other countries that are already struggling will get into deeper dep

by dzonga 8mo ago

that's pretty obvious to everyone in the US what's not obvious to most people - is how e.g other countries that are already struggling will get into deeper depths e.g UK where cost of energy was super high. UK is not bombing Iran, but their economy will cry more than the US what's not obvious is how a few oil Barrons will make so much money in the next few weeks e.g those in Texas - their great grand-children will never need to work. Defense contractors will also make out like bandits & those politically connected. While everyone else in the US losses. what's not obvious is the money pumped into A.I so far is about to go kaput (energy demands -- remember Qatar has started not honoring gas contracts - what's gas used to ? power turbines in power plants) if you're in the US/Netherlands you will be okay in terms of food, if you're in the UK, Middle East, Australia (food is about to become more expensive & tricky) if you're in Africa your government is about to con you through massive fuel prices at the pump

donavanm 8mo ago
> if you're in the UK, Middle East, Australia (food is about to become more expensive & tricky) Australias not in a terrible position. We produce ~50% of our NPK fertilizers used, and this is down primarily because were importing more from places with cheaper/distant environmental impact. Conversely, IIRC, UK and Ineos just shut down their significant last fertilizer plant and the north sea fields is its own thing. Similarly we have suitable local gas supply for the needed feedstock. And you can see the govt already starting to restrict (“reserve”) exports. Which, of course, will contribute to the global problem. AU as a whole is a commodity and food exporter. Of course global commodity squeezes make Everyone poorer, I believe ricardo. I dont see our local position being anywhere as fragile as europe and me, unless Im missing something. But I dont see AU being anywhere near as fragile as Sri Lanka circa 2022-23.
- awesome_dude 8mo ago
  The Australians are currently pointing to diesel reserves or on hand in the farms is quite low, suggesting that mechanised cropping/transport of farm products is going to provide a pinch point. I have no idea if the reports are accurate, or an attempt to put the market into readiness for inflation. edit: Whether real or imagined, there is panic buying of petrol happening - this could lead to supply issues by itself. https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1rohwzl/fuel_panic_buying_grips_australia_as_sydney/ https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1rohwzl/fuel_pan...
  - Intermernet 8mo ago
    As someone who has done physical work at the sites of Australian diesel reserves, they aren't designed to last that long. I do still feel we're better off than most. We can actually offset the price of fuel by reducing the government excise, and even subsidising it. We've done it before. 2 gulf wars, a global oil crisis, general middle east chaos? Australia has typically done better than most. Would still be good if we had an actual sovereign mineral fund and hadn't sold our gas rights to everyone else, but I suppose we have to live with the stupid shit the previous governments have done.
- stephen_g 8mo ago
  We are vulnerable in Australia though because we have to move food large distances from farms to cities and are unusually road-dependent for those kind of distances (most countries use much more freight rail). Large diesel price rises are going to be extremely painful for us. And electricity and manufacturing too, since we have no real gas reservation policy and the exporters were allowed to build enough capacity to export basically every single joule of gas that we produce (and they pay a fraction of the royalties that countries like Qatar rake in). So locals and local businesses pay very high prices so the gas companies can export most of our supply overseas...
  - iso-logi 8mo ago
    Diesel price rising can be easily fixed though. The Government collects 51.6 cents per litre on Fuel and Diesel, they'd need to just temporarily cut back on some of their obscene fuel margins to keep everything within steady-state. The question is, will the Government do so?
    - Xixi 8mo ago
      But what if there's not enough diesel? That's what at stake here, with oil exports from the Middle East dwindling... Oil price might not even go up that much, or for that long, if the economy crashes hard enough.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
- ratmeadow 8mo ago
  The cynic in me thinks we will be squeezed anyway because [name redacted] leaders apparently love to sell off everything to the global market with little concern for the residents. Why squeeze just domestic or just global when you can do both and collect even more profit?
arrowsmith 8mo ago
> UK where cost of energy was super high “Was”?
- orwin 8mo ago
  Probably missing 'already', that's how I understood the sentence.
bigbadfeline 8mo ago
> UK where cost of energy was super high. UK is not bombing Iran, but their economy will cry more than the US. UK isn't exactly rich on energy resources, especially after the North Sea oil dried out. Living in a global economy, most oil is still priced in dollars - which the UK can't print - resulting in a tough energy market in the UK and many other places. Wars are the worst enemies of good life and economic development, it's profoundly revealing to watch how two of largest and richest countries in the world, with the absolute largest nuclear arsenals, are both engaged in the destruction of other countries - one for each... for now. Both of the attacked countries are fairly large and have significant impact on global prosperity and supply chains... This isn't a fairy tale.
standardUser 8mo ago
This is one of likely many shocks that will reward those nations that are leading on cutting fossil fuel use - and punish the laggards.
PearlRiver 8mo ago
Yeah in rich countries nobody is going to starve- at worst you'll have to shop at Aldi. In Africa the price of bread actually matters...
- joe_mamba 8mo ago
  >Yeah in rich countries nobody is going to starve- at worst you'll have to shop at Aldi. Except that people in rich countries expect a higher bar for their standard of living than just avoiding starvation given the amount of taxes they pay and how expensive life is. It's not like if you live in a wealthy country it's all sunshine and roses, you're subjected to continuous mass layoffs while still paying wealthy country levels of rent, and people here were already shopping at Lidl to stay afloat. If you keep squeezing them further, they'll just vote the most radical left/right wing candidate who promises to flip the monopoly board over and you don't want that. Telling them to eat (Lidl) cake is never gonna end up well.
brandensilva 8mo ago
Even banks are backing out of AI data centers as the risk is too great. Tells you right away that they know the risk exceeds even their willingness to finance the wealthiest ambitions.
joe_mamba 8mo ago
>if you're in the US/Netherlands you will be okay in terms of food I don't get it. Why is Netherlands in the same boat as the US? Do they have some crazy oil reserves I don't know about?
- John23832 8mo ago
  They are a net food exporter.

by dzonga 8mo ago

donavanm 8mo ago

> if you're in the UK, Middle East, Australia (food is about to become more expensive & tricky) Australias not in a terrible position. We produce ~50% of our NPK fertilizers used, and this is down primarily because were importing more from places with cheaper/distant environmental impact. Conversely, IIRC, UK and Ineos just shut down their significant last fertilizer plant and the north sea fields is its own thing. Similarly we have suitable local gas supply for the needed feedstock. And you can see the govt already starting to restrict (“reserve”) exports. Which, of course, will contribute to the global problem. AU as a whole is a commodity and food exporter. Of course global commodity squeezes make Everyone poorer, I believe ricardo. I dont see our local position being anywhere as fragile as europe and me, unless Im missing something. But I dont see AU being anywhere near as fragile as Sri Lanka circa 2022-23.

awesome_dude 8mo ago
The Australians are currently pointing to diesel reserves or on hand in the farms is quite low, suggesting that mechanised cropping/transport of farm products is going to provide a pinch point. I have no idea if the reports are accurate, or an attempt to put the market into readiness for inflation. edit: Whether real or imagined, there is panic buying of petrol happening - this could lead to supply issues by itself. https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1rohwzl/fuel_panic_buying_grips_australia_as_sydney/ https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/1rohwzl/fuel_pan...
- Intermernet 8mo ago
  As someone who has done physical work at the sites of Australian diesel reserves, they aren't designed to last that long. I do still feel we're better off than most. We can actually offset the price of fuel by reducing the government excise, and even subsidising it. We've done it before. 2 gulf wars, a global oil crisis, general middle east chaos? Australia has typically done better than most. Would still be good if we had an actual sovereign mineral fund and hadn't sold our gas rights to everyone else, but I suppose we have to live with the stupid shit the previous governments have done.
stephen_g 8mo ago
We are vulnerable in Australia though because we have to move food large distances from farms to cities and are unusually road-dependent for those kind of distances (most countries use much more freight rail). Large diesel price rises are going to be extremely painful for us. And electricity and manufacturing too, since we have no real gas reservation policy and the exporters were allowed to build enough capacity to export basically every single joule of gas that we produce (and they pay a fraction of the royalties that countries like Qatar rake in). So locals and local businesses pay very high prices so the gas companies can export most of our supply overseas...
- iso-logi 8mo ago
  Diesel price rising can be easily fixed though. The Government collects 51.6 cents per litre on Fuel and Diesel, they'd need to just temporarily cut back on some of their obscene fuel margins to keep everything within steady-state. The question is, will the Government do so?
  - Xixi 8mo ago
    But what if there's not enough diesel? That's what at stake here, with oil exports from the Middle East dwindling... Oil price might not even go up that much, or for that long, if the economy crashes hard enough.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
ratmeadow 8mo ago
The cynic in me thinks we will be squeezed anyway because [name redacted] leaders apparently love to sell off everything to the global market with little concern for the residents. Why squeeze just domestic or just global when you can do both and collect even more profit?

arrowsmith 8mo ago

> UK where cost of energy was super high “Was”?

orwin 8mo ago
Probably missing 'already', that's how I understood the sentence.

bigbadfeline 8mo ago

> UK where cost of energy was super high. UK is not bombing Iran, but their economy will cry more than the US. UK isn't exactly rich on energy resources, especially after the North Sea oil dried out. Living in a global economy, most oil is still priced in dollars - which the UK can't print - resulting in a tough energy market in the UK and many other places. Wars are the worst enemies of good life and economic development, it's profoundly revealing to watch how two of largest and richest countries in the world, with the absolute largest nuclear arsenals, are both engaged in the destruction of other countries - one for each... for now. Both of the attacked countries are fairly large and have significant impact on global prosperity and supply chains... This isn't a fairy tale.

standardUser 8mo ago

This is one of likely many shocks that will reward those nations that are leading on cutting fossil fuel use - and punish the laggards.

PearlRiver 8mo ago

Yeah in rich countries nobody is going to starve- at worst you'll have to shop at Aldi. In Africa the price of bread actually matters...

joe_mamba 8mo ago
>Yeah in rich countries nobody is going to starve- at worst you'll have to shop at Aldi. Except that people in rich countries expect a higher bar for their standard of living than just avoiding starvation given the amount of taxes they pay and how expensive life is. It's not like if you live in a wealthy country it's all sunshine and roses, you're subjected to continuous mass layoffs while still paying wealthy country levels of rent, and people here were already shopping at Lidl to stay afloat. If you keep squeezing them further, they'll just vote the most radical left/right wing candidate who promises to flip the monopoly board over and you don't want that. Telling them to eat (Lidl) cake is never gonna end up well.

brandensilva 8mo ago

Even banks are backing out of AI data centers as the risk is too great. Tells you right away that they know the risk exceeds even their willingness to finance the wealthiest ambitions.

joe_mamba 8mo ago

>if you're in the US/Netherlands you will be okay in terms of food I don't get it. Why is Netherlands in the same boat as the US? Do they have some crazy oil reserves I don't know about?

John23832 8mo ago
They are a net food exporter.