3 ms·

The Bovadium Fragments: Together with The Origin of Bovadium

45 points by freediver 7mo ago

mplanchard 7mo ago
Wow what a treat, previously unreleased tolkien satire on one of my own hobby-horses. Put in an order with my local bookstore, so excited to read this!
seanhunter 7mo ago
It's fair to say that after all the descriptions of the shire vs isengard etc in the LoTR, his position on mechanization and cars isn't very surprising, but it's quite extraordinary for this to show up.
reillyse 7mo ago
Tolkien really was a serious reactionary. I’m not a fan of cars or environmental damage but the idyll that he puts on a pedestal just didn’t exist for the vast majority of humans in Britain (let alone elsewhere in the world)
- shrubble 7mo ago
  The Cotswolds documented at their tail end (ended by the motorcycle and car) by Laurie Lee in "Cider With Rosie" had about the same existence for centuries.
  - reillyse 7mo ago
    I would push back on that concept a bit. I think if you lived in the Cotswolds in say 1920 you would be agog with the pace of change. Bicycles, industry, exploration the world even literacy. Everything around you was changing and the idea that this place was unchanged is simply not true. Somebody in 1820 might not be able to read but by 1920 literacy had hit 96-97% (numbers for the UK in general), books became far more common etc etc Change is the only constant.
    - shrubble 7mo ago
      Laurie Lee was born in 1914 and as a child, witnessed these changes, but he could also know from interacting with those much older, how little the basic rhythms of life had changed up until then. Literacy in earlier years, from a quick search, still seems to be debated as the line for literacy is whether the person could sign their name to the marriage register, which is a low bar.
      - reillyse 7mo ago
        Ok, so I guess the litmus test is asking someone born in 1814 did they think they were living in a place that was changing fast - and I think you'd find a very similar answer, thats my point. Industrial revolution - was a very very big deal and changed society permanently including the Cotswolds.
ecshafer 7mo ago
Tolkien continues to be quite prescient then. The Automobile has been an unmitigated disaster for mankind, the environment, and society. It destroys the environment, it makes cities less pleasant to live in, it kills people, it causes extra friction to social interactions that damages social bonds.
- ahazred8ta 7mo ago
  > The Automobile makes cities less pleasant to live in In 1900, there was a major manure crisis in all large european and north american cities. The swarms of flies were inescapable. Although certainly the new roads required by increased population caused disruption.
GMoromisato 7mo ago
Tolkien was probably right in that he would have hated to live in 2026. We are literally building machines designed to replace people like him. And yet, I can't help thinking that I would hate to live in Tolkien's time. When I was around 10, in 1975, I built a giant computer out of a cardboard box. To me, a computer was the same as a spaceship--something I would never own. Then in 1978, I saw an ad for a TRS-80 personal computer, and my world flipped. Even now, in my 60s, I can't wait to sit down and start programming (with or without AI). I've had a long, fruitful, and extremely fun career with computers, and I can't imagine what I would have done without them. Does that mean it's all relative? Whatever we're used to, that's what's good and any change is monstrous? Or is there really such a thing as progress and degeneration? Is it possible to say our time is better or worse than Tolkien's in some absolute sense? I don't know. I think if you take a Rawlsian perspective, and imagine being a random person of the era, I think being born today is far preferable to being born in 1892. On every measure--childhood poverty, violent deaths, even air quality--2026 is better than 1892. And that improvement is due almost entirely to technology--to the machine.
- gexla 7mo ago
  One of my favorite movies as a kid was Explorers (1985) where kids built a spaceship from a Tilt-A-Whirl and other parts. It was an inspiration. Like you, I enjoy programming, but I haven't built a spaceship yet. Hehe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorers_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorers_(film)
  - switchbak 7mo ago
    That movie was really incredible, right up until the part where they ran out of money making it and it took a right hand turn into being absolutely terrible. When I was young I only saw the first half. Decades later I got to finish it ... what a letdown after all this time.
- xyzzy_plugh 7mo ago
  I heartily agree with you except for the ongoing childhood-screentime pandemic where kids aren't going outside to play, but instead are staying inside, alone, and maybe playing with others virtually, but with more exposure to harm (e.g. gambling). This is clearly going to cause some serious long term generational fallout.
johngossman 7mo ago
Tolkien and Lewis came by their luddism fairly, having both survived the horrors of trench warfare.
carlosneves 7mo ago
This concept of "machine worship" reminds me of E. M. Forster's The Machine Stops. Is it possible for a tech-oriented ideal to escape "machine worship"? As we strive to refine our "machines" ever further, and our "machines" become ever more capable, where does that lead us?
- actionfromafar 7mo ago
  The Machine Stops is incredible, it has influencers and everything.

45 points by freediver 7mo ago

Wow what a treat, previously unreleased tolkien satire on one of my own hobby-horses. Put in an order with my local bookstore, so excited to read this!

seanhunter 7mo ago

It's fair to say that after all the descriptions of the shire vs isengard etc in the LoTR, his position on mechanization and cars isn't very surprising, but it's quite extraordinary for this to show up.

reillyse 7mo ago

Tolkien really was a serious reactionary. I’m not a fan of cars or environmental damage but the idyll that he puts on a pedestal just didn’t exist for the vast majority of humans in Britain (let alone elsewhere in the world)

shrubble 7mo ago
The Cotswolds documented at their tail end (ended by the motorcycle and car) by Laurie Lee in "Cider With Rosie" had about the same existence for centuries.
- reillyse 7mo ago
  I would push back on that concept a bit. I think if you lived in the Cotswolds in say 1920 you would be agog with the pace of change. Bicycles, industry, exploration the world even literacy. Everything around you was changing and the idea that this place was unchanged is simply not true. Somebody in 1820 might not be able to read but by 1920 literacy had hit 96-97% (numbers for the UK in general), books became far more common etc etc Change is the only constant.
  - shrubble 7mo ago
    Laurie Lee was born in 1914 and as a child, witnessed these changes, but he could also know from interacting with those much older, how little the basic rhythms of life had changed up until then. Literacy in earlier years, from a quick search, still seems to be debated as the line for literacy is whether the person could sign their name to the marriage register, which is a low bar.
    - reillyse 7mo ago
      Ok, so I guess the litmus test is asking someone born in 1814 did they think they were living in a place that was changing fast - and I think you'd find a very similar answer, thats my point. Industrial revolution - was a very very big deal and changed society permanently including the Cotswolds.

ecshafer 7mo ago

Tolkien continues to be quite prescient then. The Automobile has been an unmitigated disaster for mankind, the environment, and society. It destroys the environment, it makes cities less pleasant to live in, it kills people, it causes extra friction to social interactions that damages social bonds.

ahazred8ta 7mo ago
> The Automobile makes cities less pleasant to live in In 1900, there was a major manure crisis in all large european and north american cities. The swarms of flies were inescapable. Although certainly the new roads required by increased population caused disruption.

GMoromisato 7mo ago

Tolkien was probably right in that he would have hated to live in 2026. We are literally building machines designed to replace people like him. And yet, I can't help thinking that I would hate to live in Tolkien's time. When I was around 10, in 1975, I built a giant computer out of a cardboard box. To me, a computer was the same as a spaceship--something I would never own. Then in 1978, I saw an ad for a TRS-80 personal computer, and my world flipped. Even now, in my 60s, I can't wait to sit down and start programming (with or without AI). I've had a long, fruitful, and extremely fun career with computers, and I can't imagine what I would have done without them. Does that mean it's all relative? Whatever we're used to, that's what's good and any change is monstrous? Or is there really such a thing as progress and degeneration? Is it possible to say our time is better or worse than Tolkien's in some absolute sense? I don't know. I think if you take a Rawlsian perspective, and imagine being a random person of the era, I think being born today is far preferable to being born in 1892. On every measure--childhood poverty, violent deaths, even air quality--2026 is better than 1892. And that improvement is due almost entirely to technology--to the machine.

gexla 7mo ago
One of my favorite movies as a kid was Explorers (1985) where kids built a spaceship from a Tilt-A-Whirl and other parts. It was an inspiration. Like you, I enjoy programming, but I haven't built a spaceship yet. Hehe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorers_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explorers_(film)
- switchbak 7mo ago
  That movie was really incredible, right up until the part where they ran out of money making it and it took a right hand turn into being absolutely terrible. When I was young I only saw the first half. Decades later I got to finish it ... what a letdown after all this time.
xyzzy_plugh 7mo ago
I heartily agree with you except for the ongoing childhood-screentime pandemic where kids aren't going outside to play, but instead are staying inside, alone, and maybe playing with others virtually, but with more exposure to harm (e.g. gambling). This is clearly going to cause some serious long term generational fallout.

johngossman 7mo ago

Tolkien and Lewis came by their luddism fairly, having both survived the horrors of trench warfare.

carlosneves 7mo ago

This concept of "machine worship" reminds me of E. M. Forster's The Machine Stops. Is it possible for a tech-oriented ideal to escape "machine worship"? As we strive to refine our "machines" ever further, and our "machines" become ever more capable, where does that lead us?

actionfromafar 7mo ago
The Machine Stops is incredible, it has influencers and everything.