5 ms·

Do emojis enrich communication, or debase it? Why not use words, with precise meanings? Emojis are prevarication.

by esafak 8mo ago

something765478 8mo ago
I believe they do. When people talk in person, there is a lot of non verbal communication that give context to their words (smiles, shrugs, side glances, etc). Even when it's just people talking over the phone, the way they pronounce words carries information (it's a lot easier to tell if someone is being sarcastic if you hear their voice, for example). So, emojis are useful for providing that missing context.
- esafak 8mo ago
  That's a great point, but I am skeptical that emojis adequately carry the affect of nonverbal communication. I believe you make a case for sending audio/video messages alongside the text.
  - egypturnash 8mo ago
    How do you feel about plaintext smilies? People were doing those long before emoji existed. :) :p :D
    - esafak 8mo ago
      The same way. For me the proper use of emojis is in reactions, to cut down on brief responses that cause clutter and undesirable notifications. I am less welcoming of them in the middle of a message, where they don't serve that purpose.
  - WorldMaker 8mo ago
    I think some emoji have directly and already entered the colloquial lexicon of being essentially emotional content punctuation marks and modifiers. It's still a different communication channel than facial, body language, and tonal modifiers of physical presence and verbal communications, but it still feels like the gap is closing. There are also ways that emoji used as such are better, or at least more accessible, than their facial/body language counterparts: a screen reader can read the name of an emoji to a blind person to get a sense of it whereas facial recognition software that can verbalize such things still isn't always so accurate; that same tool of glancing at an emoji name is also open to neuro-divergent and other differently abled people that may have difficulty interpreting facial expressions and body language in real time.
- crazygringo 8mo ago
  I don't know why you're being downvoted, but it's exactly this. Pre-emojis, there were so many times I misinterpreted a text, or had a text misinterpreted. Something that is obviously a joke or sarcasm or teasing with non-verbal communication, can come across as an insult without it. When somebody adds a wink emoji or similar at the end, it changes everything. Emoji are fantastic at communicating tone and attitude alongside the text itself. They're not a 1-1 correspondence with non-verbal communication, or a perfect replacement, but they vastly improve the chances that something playful isn't misunderstood in a negative way.
kg 8mo ago
Most words don't have especially precise meanings, context is everything. So emojis being imprecise is not a unique problem. And emojis can be especially dense with information in a way that can be pretty convenient. You can scan a 96x32 pixel block of 3 emojis to quickly gather information that would have required reading 1-2 whole sentences, potentially. Emoji are also more 'casual' in a way that can be helpful. You can tap the 'heart' emoji on a message to a colleague or friend to express your gratitude or thanks for something without having to prevaricate over exactly what language to use to avoid seeming insincere or overly affectionate.
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
  > Emoji are also more 'casual' in a way that can be helpful. You can tap the 'heart' emoji on a message to a colleague or friend to express your gratitude or thanks for something without having to prevaricate over exactly what language to use to avoid seeming insincere or overly affectionate. I think this might be one of the few points that this emoji use which you mention feels almost universal to me across all ages for the most part. It just saves time if you can heart a message without saying I agree with you. Additionally if the emoji itself is a reaction (say how Github/Discord heart emoji can work) then this is even better at times and how most of us sometimes use it because that way the conversation doesn't steer itself because they have nothing to respond to but they still see that you appreciated them. Win Win situation. > Most words don't have especially precise meanings, context is everything If someone wants words to have precise meanings, English isn't the best language for it. Sanskrit/Polish is. I was taught sanskrit during school and I think that a language having too precise meaning can actually take too much time to think and this just makes conversation take too long. It can also be that Sanskrit is almost extinct in verbal form aside from religious scriptures and rituals now so its just way too hard to learn the language even though we know fluent hindi. (FWIW It had 7 tenses IIRC and single/duo/plural for a single root verb) I am not sure about polish tho but I am speaking this because I have only heard polish be also described as a language with more precise meaning and there was a HN post about it sometime ago in the context of AI.
threetonesun 8mo ago
Decorative emojis (the stuff AI loves to add to bullet lists) don't do much. On the other hand I'd say emojis at the start/end of a sentence are as meaningful as emoticons or /s or any other Internet shorthand for conveying intent.
- tomashubelbauer 8mo ago
  Decorative emojis in headings and lists help me skim documents faster than I'd otherwise be able to.
  - basilikum 8mo ago
    How?
  - threetonesun 8mo ago
    I'm curious how. I rarely see the emojis line up with the content of the header in a way that makes parsing reading the header any easier.
- acheron 8mo ago
  /s is incredibly dumb as well. “Hey look everyone, I made a joke! Aren’t I clever?”
  - NetMageSCW 8mo ago
    /s is the sometimes necessary clue x four that you hit people over the head with so they won’t run away with their pearl clutching.
conductr 8mo ago
Short text communication has a way of being read as terse, rude, or with some other unintended emotion by the recipient so I think it’s a valuable way to communicate concisely but also encode the mood of the words And yes, many things can be communicated purely on emotion and no words, which in short form is also valuable
harrall 8mo ago
Words don’t have precise meanings either. “He has completed the task.” versus “He pulled it off.” Their meanings are the same but their both have different subtext. Emojis are simply additional levers for subtext. It’s like using a red hot colors versus cool colors for a poster — the text might be the same but the colors provide an additional way to signal subtext. The more options, the better.
- esafak 8mo ago
  It is the precision of language that allows you to distinguish the subtext of those two sentences.
  - harrall 8mo ago
    But by that line of thinking, it’s the same with emojis. There is a subtly to which ones you use and when. You don’t just put the same laugh emoji every time it’s funny…
    - esafak 8mo ago
      I think there is a difference: with emojis, only the sender knows the precise meaning. Words have agreed on definitions.
      - kanbara 8mo ago
        go tell that to genz who use :skullemoji: or koreans who dislike pinching hand emoji, or anyone who knows what a heart, dollar bills, sleepy face or whatever else means. we make up words all the time, and they are in fact not all "agreed upon" because language changes, like how awesome used to mean "inspiring awe" and "literally" now means "figuratively" and how "google" and "tweet" are words. emoji change meaning quicker than words, yes, but that's because the were born online and because they are easier to add semantic meaning to. they're pretty neat, to be honest. even in a corporate setting we use emoji all the time to +1 things, to confirm something, or on video calls to give kudos, and more.
mock-possum 8mo ago
Unquestionably enrich. Emojis and words are not mutually exclusive, communication is overall improved by allowing a richer variety of expression.
numpad0 8mo ago
Emojis are stupid, but Japanese phone industry was weaponizing it to segregate smartphones into a niche subclass of non-serious phone-likes than actually usable phones, and so Google/Apple shoved it into Unicode to fill that moat. In hindsight, Slack style :emoji-name: notation might have done better for all, but Unicode emoji was what happened.
Aerroon 8mo ago
They obviously make communication worse. I frequently trigger the stupid emoji keyboard by accident on my phone and every time I do I wish it wouldn't exist. It also doesn't help that we already had perfectly acceptable emoticon systems beforehand that were better than current emojis because they were customizable.
- SoftTalker 8mo ago
  You can disable it. I did.
- acheron 8mo ago
  I disabled the emoji keyboard the first time it showed up and have never had it on since.
SoftTalker 8mo ago
I think they are overused and thus lose effectiveness. I don't really like them and don't use them myself but I'm not going to fight a battle over them.
zzrrt 8mo ago
I used “decorative emojis” (some colored circles) to essentially color-code the labels in an app I don’t control that only let me provide text labels. It’s a little subjective, but I do believe it enhanced communication, from the data to the user, in that case.

Do emojis enrich communication, or debase it? Why not use words, with precise meanings? Emojis are prevarication.

by esafak 8mo ago

Do emojis enrich communication, or debase it? Why not use words, with precise meanings? Emojis are prevarication.

I believe they do. When people talk in person, there is a lot of non verbal communication that give context to their words (smiles, shrugs, side glances, etc). Even when it's just people talking over the phone, the way they pronounce words carries information (it's a lot easier to tell if someone is being sarcastic if you hear their voice, for example). So, emojis are useful for providing that missing context.

esafak 8mo ago
That's a great point, but I am skeptical that emojis adequately carry the affect of nonverbal communication. I believe you make a case for sending audio/video messages alongside the text.
- egypturnash 8mo ago
  How do you feel about plaintext smilies? People were doing those long before emoji existed. :) :p :D
  - esafak 8mo ago
    The same way. For me the proper use of emojis is in reactions, to cut down on brief responses that cause clutter and undesirable notifications. I am less welcoming of them in the middle of a message, where they don't serve that purpose.
- WorldMaker 8mo ago
  I think some emoji have directly and already entered the colloquial lexicon of being essentially emotional content punctuation marks and modifiers. It's still a different communication channel than facial, body language, and tonal modifiers of physical presence and verbal communications, but it still feels like the gap is closing. There are also ways that emoji used as such are better, or at least more accessible, than their facial/body language counterparts: a screen reader can read the name of an emoji to a blind person to get a sense of it whereas facial recognition software that can verbalize such things still isn't always so accurate; that same tool of glancing at an emoji name is also open to neuro-divergent and other differently abled people that may have difficulty interpreting facial expressions and body language in real time.
crazygringo 8mo ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted, but it's exactly this. Pre-emojis, there were so many times I misinterpreted a text, or had a text misinterpreted. Something that is obviously a joke or sarcasm or teasing with non-verbal communication, can come across as an insult without it. When somebody adds a wink emoji or similar at the end, it changes everything. Emoji are fantastic at communicating tone and attitude alongside the text itself. They're not a 1-1 correspondence with non-verbal communication, or a perfect replacement, but they vastly improve the chances that something playful isn't misunderstood in a negative way.

kg 8mo ago

Most words don't have especially precise meanings, context is everything. So emojis being imprecise is not a unique problem. And emojis can be especially dense with information in a way that can be pretty convenient. You can scan a 96x32 pixel block of 3 emojis to quickly gather information that would have required reading 1-2 whole sentences, potentially. Emoji are also more 'casual' in a way that can be helpful. You can tap the 'heart' emoji on a message to a colleague or friend to express your gratitude or thanks for something without having to prevaricate over exactly what language to use to avoid seeming insincere or overly affectionate.

Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
> Emoji are also more 'casual' in a way that can be helpful. You can tap the 'heart' emoji on a message to a colleague or friend to express your gratitude or thanks for something without having to prevaricate over exactly what language to use to avoid seeming insincere or overly affectionate. I think this might be one of the few points that this emoji use which you mention feels almost universal to me across all ages for the most part. It just saves time if you can heart a message without saying I agree with you. Additionally if the emoji itself is a reaction (say how Github/Discord heart emoji can work) then this is even better at times and how most of us sometimes use it because that way the conversation doesn't steer itself because they have nothing to respond to but they still see that you appreciated them. Win Win situation. > Most words don't have especially precise meanings, context is everything If someone wants words to have precise meanings, English isn't the best language for it. Sanskrit/Polish is. I was taught sanskrit during school and I think that a language having too precise meaning can actually take too much time to think and this just makes conversation take too long. It can also be that Sanskrit is almost extinct in verbal form aside from religious scriptures and rituals now so its just way too hard to learn the language even though we know fluent hindi. (FWIW It had 7 tenses IIRC and single/duo/plural for a single root verb) I am not sure about polish tho but I am speaking this because I have only heard polish be also described as a language with more precise meaning and there was a HN post about it sometime ago in the context of AI.

threetonesun 8mo ago

Decorative emojis (the stuff AI loves to add to bullet lists) don't do much. On the other hand I'd say emojis at the start/end of a sentence are as meaningful as emoticons or /s or any other Internet shorthand for conveying intent.

tomashubelbauer 8mo ago
Decorative emojis in headings and lists help me skim documents faster than I'd otherwise be able to.
- basilikum 8mo ago
  How?
- threetonesun 8mo ago
  I'm curious how. I rarely see the emojis line up with the content of the header in a way that makes parsing reading the header any easier.
acheron 8mo ago
/s is incredibly dumb as well. “Hey look everyone, I made a joke! Aren’t I clever?”
- NetMageSCW 8mo ago
  /s is the sometimes necessary clue x four that you hit people over the head with so they won’t run away with their pearl clutching.

conductr 8mo ago

Short text communication has a way of being read as terse, rude, or with some other unintended emotion by the recipient so I think it’s a valuable way to communicate concisely but also encode the mood of the words And yes, many things can be communicated purely on emotion and no words, which in short form is also valuable

harrall 8mo ago

Words don’t have precise meanings either. “He has completed the task.” versus “He pulled it off.” Their meanings are the same but their both have different subtext. Emojis are simply additional levers for subtext. It’s like using a red hot colors versus cool colors for a poster — the text might be the same but the colors provide an additional way to signal subtext. The more options, the better.

esafak 8mo ago
It is the precision of language that allows you to distinguish the subtext of those two sentences.
- harrall 8mo ago
  But by that line of thinking, it’s the same with emojis. There is a subtly to which ones you use and when. You don’t just put the same laugh emoji every time it’s funny…
  - esafak 8mo ago
    I think there is a difference: with emojis, only the sender knows the precise meaning. Words have agreed on definitions.
    - kanbara 8mo ago
      go tell that to genz who use :skullemoji: or koreans who dislike pinching hand emoji, or anyone who knows what a heart, dollar bills, sleepy face or whatever else means. we make up words all the time, and they are in fact not all "agreed upon" because language changes, like how awesome used to mean "inspiring awe" and "literally" now means "figuratively" and how "google" and "tweet" are words. emoji change meaning quicker than words, yes, but that's because the were born online and because they are easier to add semantic meaning to. they're pretty neat, to be honest. even in a corporate setting we use emoji all the time to +1 things, to confirm something, or on video calls to give kudos, and more.

mock-possum 8mo ago

Unquestionably enrich. Emojis and words are not mutually exclusive, communication is overall improved by allowing a richer variety of expression.

numpad0 8mo ago

Emojis are stupid, but Japanese phone industry was weaponizing it to segregate smartphones into a niche subclass of non-serious phone-likes than actually usable phones, and so Google/Apple shoved it into Unicode to fill that moat. In hindsight, Slack style :emoji-name: notation might have done better for all, but Unicode emoji was what happened.

Aerroon 8mo ago

They obviously make communication worse. I frequently trigger the stupid emoji keyboard by accident on my phone and every time I do I wish it wouldn't exist. It also doesn't help that we already had perfectly acceptable emoticon systems beforehand that were better than current emojis because they were customizable.

SoftTalker 8mo ago
You can disable it. I did.
acheron 8mo ago
I disabled the emoji keyboard the first time it showed up and have never had it on since.

SoftTalker 8mo ago

I think they are overused and thus lose effectiveness. I don't really like them and don't use them myself but I'm not going to fight a battle over them.

zzrrt 8mo ago

I used “decorative emojis” (some colored circles) to essentially color-code the labels in an app I don’t control that only let me provide text labels. It’s a little subjective, but I do believe it enhanced communication, from the data to the user, in that case.