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Can't blame you. Coming from the US I have been making a point to vacation in Canada, fwiw. Short of voting, protesting and getting into arguments with MAGA pe

by gaoshan 7mo ago

Can't blame you. Coming from the US I have been making a point to vacation in Canada, fwiw. Short of voting, protesting and getting into arguments with MAGA people I don't know what else I can effectively do.

sandworm101 7mo ago
Look into your state's recall procedures. Waiting for the next election is effectively acquiescence to the current situation.
- derektank 7mo ago
  No sitting member of Congress has ever been recalled and it’s almost certainly unconstitutional. Article I only outlines one way to remove a sitting representative or senator, and that’s expulsion by a vote of the chamber in which they sit
  - sandworm101 7mo ago
    Congress is one power structure. States and cities are others. 19 states have recall procedures. The fed is much less powerful domestically without state-level support. And pulling down even a couple state reps would send a chilling message to the fed. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state-officials https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state...
    - galangalalgol 7mo ago
      Very few red states in those 19...
- astura 7mo ago
  My State has no recall procedures, that doesn't exist, the same is true for the majority of states. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state-officials https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state... Beyond that, my state is not the problem.
buellerbueller 7mo ago
>getting into arguments with MAGA people >effectively these are mutually exclusive
- beej71 7mo ago
  You're getting downvoted, but people should be aware that arguments like this sometimes only reinforce the other party's position in their minds. My recommendation is also not to bother with those debates (unless you're doing it to find deficiencies in your own position).
  - FireBeyond 7mo ago
    There are elements of truth to this, but then there's other elements (here) who have said that we somehow owe it to people to argue in good faith with them when they are talking of (the ones I've personally had mentioned): post-birth abortion ("in several Democrat states, abortion is legal up to one month post birth!"), adrenochrome harvesting, etc. That it was my/our fault such views propagate because we're not "willing to understand their perspectives". The thing is, their perspectives are a lie. And in many cases, they know they're a lie, they just don't. fucking. care. So they can go online and whine about being dismissed or criticized, or pat each other on the back for "knowing the truth". There's a subset who, I'm sure, see such things as actual literal truth, and that's a different issue altogether, but not sure it's my responsibility to solve, or that failure to engage on my part makes the current situation "my fault". > It's not really a choice but a demonstration of intelligence and empathy. Still, if you deliberately decide to remain ignorant, or simply fail to understand the opposition's position even despite your best efforts, it shouldn't surprise you when you also fail to convince people your position is the correct one. Like huh? It is okay for them to be objectively dishonest, and have zero shred of empathy, curiosity for my position, but refusing to engage on a good faith basis is a failing of mine? > Once you reach this stage, your commentary pretty much just becomes elaborate whining, which makes a poor impression of yourself and actually pushes people away from your position. This is literally Idiocracy in the making. If I make a poor impression on people by repeatedly shutting down their horseshit about doctors performing "abortions" up to a week or a month after birth, or that babies are being harvested in the basement of a pizza parlor for their adrenachrome, and you're more concerned about how I should be "understanding" of that perspective, again, you're also supporting the idiocracy.
travisgriggs 7mo ago
So this. A year ago my wife and I did a road trip up into Canada (Kelowna BC region). It was a new experience. I’ve been up into Canadian provinces many times (20+ over the years), but because of the anti Canadian rhetoric that Trump and company were putting out at the time, I was embarrassed and eager for people to not actually know I was from the states. I was hyper aware of the Washington state license plates on our car. I have never felt that way before. Ashamed to be an American. Afraid of the association it implied. Anxious that people would be reductionist, unable to realize that I was not just an American, but a frustrated helpless American. The Canadian people I met as we travelled were all amazing. I was humbled that they took time to talk. And were less interested in identity than issues. One older gentleman, who saw us pull into the McDonalds with Washington plates approached us in the foyer and wanted to tell me that despite what others might say, I was welcome there. It was on one hand kinda weird and at the same time really touching.
- atonse 7mo ago
  This is true in most scenarios, and the opposite is also true – that Americans are famously friendly, and even though Canadians may not want to visit to make a point, I think even they would agree that most day to day interactions they'd have would be warm and welcoming. There might be a bit more hockey ribbing for the next few weeks, but I know there's a ton of respect for Canada's team. At the end of the day, the idea of "My problem is with the government, and not the people" is as old as time.
  - sbarre 7mo ago
    I am also a Canadian who has decided not to visit the US until further notice, and honestly, I'm sad about it. In my 20+ years of regularly travelling to the States, I've almost always had great interactions with the people I've met in all parts of the US I've visited, and I've been all over. "Warm and welcoming" is a very good description. I hope to be able to visit again in the future.
    - atonse 7mo ago
      Same has been true the 2-3 times I've visited Canada. I don't think that'll change. I remember how things got pretty heated during the run up to the Iraq War. And we hope that the friendship will endure. But I'm a pretty optimistic person anyway.
dawnerd 7mo ago
I’ve been making an effort to visit Canada and Europe more instead of domestic US tourism. I used to go to Florida multiple times a year. Not anymore and you know, Canada is such a great place, am there right now on vacation.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  So I live in Florida. People leave Canada this time a year because of the weather. If anything, go further south to Central America. Costa Rica and Panama are safe countries.
  - Teever 7mo ago
    They leave it because they have probabled lived in a winter climate their entire lives and want a change / have gotten older and it's harder on their bodies. If you've never experienced a real winter or done neat things like winter sports then visiting Canada in the winter is a great travel experience.
  - Hikikomori 7mo ago
    Until agent orange decides they should have the canal back.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  Don't miss Algonquin park. It's amazing.
thih9 7mo ago
Encouraging more people to go to protests together perhaps. While also taking care of yourself, these things can be tiring.
icecube123 7mo ago
I surprised more US folks dont visit Canada, its amazing, much safer, and cheaper for them because of the exchange difference. Im guessing they see prices in CAD ($), and think its more expensive, but not realizing that $1 of theirs buys $1.35 CAD.
- esseph 7mo ago
  > I surprised more US folks dont visit Canada, its amazing, much safer, and cheaper for them because of the exchange difference. 1. A lot of people can't afford vacations right now 2. For people in the US, socially and culturally, there's not much of a "drive" or desire to visit Canada. I've worked for Canadian companies, etc. I've never once in my entire life heard somebody talk about visiting Canada. It's always someplace warm and tropical or it's Europe or Asia.
  - Dan_- 7mo ago
    Visiting Quebec from the East Coast is great. Driving distance, plus Montreal and Quebec City are both different enough to feel like you’ve gone somewhere different. Plus the people are just really nice.
    - esseph 7mo ago
      I love the food in Montreal, but not the roads! If you mean North East US, that whole area is a different thing. You guys (US NE + Eastern Canada) are practically neighbors compared to Miami, Houston, or Los Angeles folks :) Also probably more used to the cold!
- tavavex 7mo ago
  With a few possible exceptions, Canada isn't really cheaper for US tourists. They get more CAD for their US dollars, but most prices in Canada are scaled up accordingly, so it ends up being pretty much the same or more expensive.
- saalweachter 7mo ago
  It's probably just that it doesn't feel like there's much to "get" there. If you go south you get sun and beaches. The coastal regions of Canada will be comparable to the coastal regions of New England and the Pacific Northwest, so there's no need to go all the way there if that's the sort of beach you're looking for. Likewise your outdoors, your cities and restaurants and museums are all going to be about the same as the options available in the US, just further away. It's not really "exotic". We don't really have the same emigrant relationship with Canada; my grandfather's family spent a couple generations in Canada, but my mother only found out about it after he died. He considered his family to be Irish and to have come from Ireland; that they came to the US via a couple of generations spent in New Brunswick was never a part of the family lore. So there's no real "visiting the home of my ancestors" sort of feeling you'd otherwise see.
tokyobreakfast 7mo ago
[flagged]
beej71 7mo ago
> Short of voting, protesting and getting into arguments with MAGA people I don't know what else I can effectively do. Also: Give money to organizations that are doing the work on your behalf. Lawsuits are still important. Call or write your reps *frequently*. They use software to automatically tabulate voter positions. (And they look at it--they want to keep their jobs!)
tinfoilhatter 7mo ago
Considering every US president sans van Buren has been related to one another, I'm not sure voting is very effective either.

by gaoshan 7mo ago

sandworm101 7mo ago

Look into your state's recall procedures. Waiting for the next election is effectively acquiescence to the current situation.

derektank 7mo ago
No sitting member of Congress has ever been recalled and it’s almost certainly unconstitutional. Article I only outlines one way to remove a sitting representative or senator, and that’s expulsion by a vote of the chamber in which they sit
- sandworm101 7mo ago
  Congress is one power structure. States and cities are others. 19 states have recall procedures. The fed is much less powerful domestically without state-level support. And pulling down even a couple state reps would send a chilling message to the fed. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state-officials https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state...
  - galangalalgol 7mo ago
    Very few red states in those 19...
astura 7mo ago
My State has no recall procedures, that doesn't exist, the same is true for the majority of states. https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state-officials https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state... Beyond that, my state is not the problem.

buellerbueller 7mo ago

>getting into arguments with MAGA people >effectively these are mutually exclusive

beej71 7mo ago
You're getting downvoted, but people should be aware that arguments like this sometimes only reinforce the other party's position in their minds. My recommendation is also not to bother with those debates (unless you're doing it to find deficiencies in your own position).
- FireBeyond 7mo ago
  There are elements of truth to this, but then there's other elements (here) who have said that we somehow owe it to people to argue in good faith with them when they are talking of (the ones I've personally had mentioned): post-birth abortion ("in several Democrat states, abortion is legal up to one month post birth!"), adrenochrome harvesting, etc. That it was my/our fault such views propagate because we're not "willing to understand their perspectives". The thing is, their perspectives are a lie. And in many cases, they know they're a lie, they just don't. fucking. care. So they can go online and whine about being dismissed or criticized, or pat each other on the back for "knowing the truth". There's a subset who, I'm sure, see such things as actual literal truth, and that's a different issue altogether, but not sure it's my responsibility to solve, or that failure to engage on my part makes the current situation "my fault". > It's not really a choice but a demonstration of intelligence and empathy. Still, if you deliberately decide to remain ignorant, or simply fail to understand the opposition's position even despite your best efforts, it shouldn't surprise you when you also fail to convince people your position is the correct one. Like huh? It is okay for them to be objectively dishonest, and have zero shred of empathy, curiosity for my position, but refusing to engage on a good faith basis is a failing of mine? > Once you reach this stage, your commentary pretty much just becomes elaborate whining, which makes a poor impression of yourself and actually pushes people away from your position. This is literally Idiocracy in the making. If I make a poor impression on people by repeatedly shutting down their horseshit about doctors performing "abortions" up to a week or a month after birth, or that babies are being harvested in the basement of a pizza parlor for their adrenachrome, and you're more concerned about how I should be "understanding" of that perspective, again, you're also supporting the idiocracy.

travisgriggs 7mo ago

So this. A year ago my wife and I did a road trip up into Canada (Kelowna BC region). It was a new experience. I’ve been up into Canadian provinces many times (20+ over the years), but because of the anti Canadian rhetoric that Trump and company were putting out at the time, I was embarrassed and eager for people to not actually know I was from the states. I was hyper aware of the Washington state license plates on our car. I have never felt that way before. Ashamed to be an American. Afraid of the association it implied. Anxious that people would be reductionist, unable to realize that I was not just an American, but a frustrated helpless American. The Canadian people I met as we travelled were all amazing. I was humbled that they took time to talk. And were less interested in identity than issues. One older gentleman, who saw us pull into the McDonalds with Washington plates approached us in the foyer and wanted to tell me that despite what others might say, I was welcome there. It was on one hand kinda weird and at the same time really touching.

atonse 7mo ago
This is true in most scenarios, and the opposite is also true – that Americans are famously friendly, and even though Canadians may not want to visit to make a point, I think even they would agree that most day to day interactions they'd have would be warm and welcoming. There might be a bit more hockey ribbing for the next few weeks, but I know there's a ton of respect for Canada's team. At the end of the day, the idea of "My problem is with the government, and not the people" is as old as time.
- sbarre 7mo ago
  I am also a Canadian who has decided not to visit the US until further notice, and honestly, I'm sad about it. In my 20+ years of regularly travelling to the States, I've almost always had great interactions with the people I've met in all parts of the US I've visited, and I've been all over. "Warm and welcoming" is a very good description. I hope to be able to visit again in the future.
  - atonse 7mo ago
    Same has been true the 2-3 times I've visited Canada. I don't think that'll change. I remember how things got pretty heated during the run up to the Iraq War. And we hope that the friendship will endure. But I'm a pretty optimistic person anyway.

dawnerd 7mo ago

I’ve been making an effort to visit Canada and Europe more instead of domestic US tourism. I used to go to Florida multiple times a year. Not anymore and you know, Canada is such a great place, am there right now on vacation.

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
So I live in Florida. People leave Canada this time a year because of the weather. If anything, go further south to Central America. Costa Rica and Panama are safe countries.
- Teever 7mo ago
  They leave it because they have probabled lived in a winter climate their entire lives and want a change / have gotten older and it's harder on their bodies. If you've never experienced a real winter or done neat things like winter sports then visiting Canada in the winter is a great travel experience.
- Hikikomori 7mo ago
  Until agent orange decides they should have the canal back.
jacquesm 7mo ago
Don't miss Algonquin park. It's amazing.

thih9 7mo ago

Encouraging more people to go to protests together perhaps. While also taking care of yourself, these things can be tiring.

icecube123 7mo ago

I surprised more US folks dont visit Canada, its amazing, much safer, and cheaper for them because of the exchange difference. Im guessing they see prices in CAD ($), and think its more expensive, but not realizing that $1 of theirs buys $1.35 CAD.

esseph 7mo ago
> I surprised more US folks dont visit Canada, its amazing, much safer, and cheaper for them because of the exchange difference. 1. A lot of people can't afford vacations right now 2. For people in the US, socially and culturally, there's not much of a "drive" or desire to visit Canada. I've worked for Canadian companies, etc. I've never once in my entire life heard somebody talk about visiting Canada. It's always someplace warm and tropical or it's Europe or Asia.
- Dan_- 7mo ago
  Visiting Quebec from the East Coast is great. Driving distance, plus Montreal and Quebec City are both different enough to feel like you’ve gone somewhere different. Plus the people are just really nice.
  - esseph 7mo ago
    I love the food in Montreal, but not the roads! If you mean North East US, that whole area is a different thing. You guys (US NE + Eastern Canada) are practically neighbors compared to Miami, Houston, or Los Angeles folks :) Also probably more used to the cold!
tavavex 7mo ago
With a few possible exceptions, Canada isn't really cheaper for US tourists. They get more CAD for their US dollars, but most prices in Canada are scaled up accordingly, so it ends up being pretty much the same or more expensive.
saalweachter 7mo ago
It's probably just that it doesn't feel like there's much to "get" there. If you go south you get sun and beaches. The coastal regions of Canada will be comparable to the coastal regions of New England and the Pacific Northwest, so there's no need to go all the way there if that's the sort of beach you're looking for. Likewise your outdoors, your cities and restaurants and museums are all going to be about the same as the options available in the US, just further away. It's not really "exotic". We don't really have the same emigrant relationship with Canada; my grandfather's family spent a couple generations in Canada, but my mother only found out about it after he died. He considered his family to be Irish and to have come from Ireland; that they came to the US via a couple of generations spent in New Brunswick was never a part of the family lore. So there's no real "visiting the home of my ancestors" sort of feeling you'd otherwise see.

tokyobreakfast 7mo ago

[flagged]

beej71 7mo ago

> Short of voting, protesting and getting into arguments with MAGA people I don't know what else I can effectively do. Also: Give money to organizations that are doing the work on your behalf. Lawsuits are still important. Call or write your reps *frequently*. They use software to automatically tabulate voter positions. (And they look at it--they want to keep their jobs!)

tinfoilhatter 7mo ago

Considering every US president sans van Buren has been related to one another, I'm not sure voting is very effective either.