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A tool that removes censorship from open-weight LLMs
- greenpizza13 8mo agoNever stopped to ask if they should...
- k33n 8mo agoOf course all censorship should be removed from everything. But in this case, he never stopped to ask if he could.
- Alifatisk 8mo agoThis is for local models right? I can't use it on, say my glm-5 subscription connected to opencode?
- HanClinto 8mo agoCorrect, local models only.
- ComputerGuru 8mo agoReviews of the tool on twitter indicate that it completely nerfs the models in the process. It won't refuse, but it generates absolutely stupid responses instead.
- Animats 8mo agoLink? It's interesting that people are writing tools that go inside the weights and do things. We're getting past the black box era of LLMs. That may or may not be a good thing.
- noufalibrahim 8mo agoI believe that this is already done to several models. One that I've come across are the JOSIEfied models from Gökdeniz Gülmez. I downloaded one or two and tried them on a local ollama setup. It does generate potentially dangerous output. Turning on thinking for the QWEN series shows how it arrives at it's conclusions and it's quite disturbing. However, after a few rounds of conversation, it gets into loops and just repeats things over and over again. The main JOSIE models worked the best of all and was still useful even after abliteration.
- thegrim33 8mo agoWhether or not the linked tool uses a good approach, manipulating models like you mention is already fairly well established, see: https://huggingface.co/blog/mlabonne/abliteration https://huggingface.co/blog/mlabonne/abliteration .
- kube-system 8mo agoI guess it's kind of like a lobotomy tool.
- sheepscreek 8mo agoI guess it proves you cannot unlobotomize a hole in the head.
- littlestymaar 8mo agoThis is vibecoded garbage that the “author” probably didn't even test by themselves since making this yesterday, so it's not surprising that it's broken. Also, as I said in a top level comment, what this project wants to achieve has been done for a while and it's called Heretic: https://github.com/p-e-w/heretic https://github.com/p-e-w/heretic (Not vibecode by a twitter influgrifter)
- quotemstr 8mo agoWe will eventually arrive at a new equilibrium involving everyone except the most stupid and credulous applying a lot more skepticism to public claims than we did before. And yeah, doing stuff like deleting layers or nulling out whole expert heads has a certain ice pick through the eye socket quality. That said, some kind of automated model brain surgery will likely be viable one day.
- dinunnob 8mo ago[flagged]
- littlestymaar 8mo ago> he demonstrates results that are crazy all the time That's what influgrifters do, yes. They make a living thanks to gullible people believing their grandiose claims.
- D-Machine 8mo agoThanks for this link, and mentioning this info some times in this overall thread. It also seems the influgrifter has a lot of bots (or perhaps cultists) working this thread...
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- IncreasePosts 8mo agoI didn't use this tool, but I did try out abliterated versions of Gemma and yes, it lost about 100% of it's ability to produce a useful response once I did it
- electroglyph 8mo agothe default heretic with only 100 samples isn't very good, you really need your own, larger dataset to do a proper abliteration. the best abliteration roughly matches a very careful decensor SFT
- halJordan 8mo agoEveryone says that abliteration destroys the model. That's the trope phrase everyone who doesn't know anything but wants to participate says. If someone says it to you, ignore them.
- butILoveLife 8mo agoThis is my experience with abliterated models. I use Berkley Sterling from 2024 because I can trick it. No abliteration needed.
- D-Machine 8mo agoWhen you look at how monstrously large (and obviously not thought through at all, if you understand even the most minimal basics of the linear algebra and math of a transformer LLM) the components are that are ablated (weights set to zero) in his "Ablation Strategies" section, it is no surprise. Strategy What it does Use case ....................................................... layer_removal Zero out entire transformer layers head_pruning Zero out individual attention heads ffn_ablation Zero out feed-forward blocks embedding_ablation Zero out embedding dimension ranges https://github.com/elder-plinius/OBLITERATUS?tab=readme-ov-file#ablation-strategies https://github.com/elder-plinius/OBLITERATUS?tab=readme-ov-f...
- littlestymaar 8mo agoDon't use this 2 days old vibe coded bullshit please. p-e-w's Heretic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45945587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45945587) is what you're looking for if you're looking for an automatic de-censoring solution.
- bird0861 8mo agoJust want to add to this that with custom calibration data it's incredibly effective and surgical, you can get VERY LOW KL divergence this way. Many MoEs are supported too, it's actively maintained.
- a2128 8mo agoYou're not just using a tool — you're co-authoring the science. This README is an absolute headache that is filled with AI writing, terminology that doesn't exist or is being used improperly, and unsound ideas. For example, it focuses a lot on doing "ablation studies", by which it means removing random layers of an already-trained model, to find the source of the refusals(?), which is an absolute fool's errand because such behavior is trained into the model as a whole and would not be found in any particular layer. I can only assume somebody vibe-coded this and spent way too much time being told "You're absolutely right!" bouncing back the worst ideas
- creatonez 8mo ago> For example, it focuses a lot on doing "ablation studies", by which it means removing random layers of an already-trained model, to find the source of the refusals(?), which is an absolute fool's errand because such behavior is trained into the model as a whole and would not be found in any particular layer. That doesn't mean there couldn't be a "concept neuron" that is doing the vast majority of heavy lifting for content refusal, though.
- mapontosevenths 8mo agoThats not what it means at all. It uses SVD[0] to map the subspace in which the refusal happens. Its all pretty standard stuff with some hype on top to make it an interesting read. Its basically using a compression technique to figure out which logits are the relevant ones and then zeroing them. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_value_decomposition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_value_decomposition
- D-Machine 8mo agoYou are also not quite correct, IMO. See my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47283197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47283197. What you are talking about is abliteration. What OBLITERATUS seems to be claiming to do is much more dumb, i.e. just zeroing out huge components (e.g. embedding dimension ranges, feed-forward blocks; https://github.com/elder-plinius/OBLITERATUS?tab=readme-ov-file#ablation-strategies https://github.com/elder-plinius/OBLITERATUS?tab=readme-ov-f...) of the network as an "Ablation Study" to attempt to determine the semantics of these components. However, all these methods are marked as "Novel", I.e., maybe just BS made up by the author. IMO I don't see how they can work based on how they are named, they are way too dumb and clunky. But proper abliteration like you mentioned can definitely work.
- measurablefunc 8mo agoThis is another instance of avant-garde "art".
- PeterStuer 8mo agoAlready censored for sharing on FB Messenger?
- ftkftk 8mo agoDidn't make it past the first paragraph of AI slop in the README. Have some respect for your readers and put actual information in it, ideally human generated. At least the first paragraph! Otherwise you may as well name it IGNOREME.
- SilverElfin 8mo agoDoes anyone offer a live (paid) LLM chatbot / video generation / etc that is completely uncensored? Like not requiring doing any work except just paying for it?
- nomel 8mo agoGrok was one of the closest, with expected results: bad PR from the obvious use cases that come with little censorship.
- mapontosevenths 8mo agoNous Hermes was built from the ground up to be uncensored. No abliteration required. Its not a frontier model but it will give you a feel for what its like.
- pjc50 8mo agoDoes anyone offering such a thing bear liability if the model induces a crime?
- dragonwriter 8mo agoSomeone offering a completely uncensored chatbot or image/video generation service is probably either committing, or at risk of committing, crimes directly, which may be a more pressing concern than having liability for inducing a third party to commit a crime. Even jurisdictions with relatively broad expressive freedoms tend not to tolerate distribution (especially commercial distribution) of all conceivable content.
- dragonwriter 8mo ago> Does anyone offer a live (paid) LLM chatbot / video generation / etc that is completely uncensored? Probably not, because if it is completely uncensored, it would probably violate the law (in different ways) in every possible jurisdiction.. (Also, one common method of censorship is exclusion of particular types of content from the training set, so to be completely free of that kind of censorship, there would have to be no content intentionally excluded from the training set.) In general, paid services are censored not only to attempt to meet the laws in all jurisdictions of concern to the provider, but also to try to be safe with regard to the (shiifting) demands of payment processors, and to try to maintain the PR image of the provider.
- aplomb1026 8mo ago[flagged]
- g947o 8mo agoWent through the README but still have no idea how well this works, in terms of removing the censorship while minimally degrading the quality of responses. Well to be honest I can't tell if this works at all or is just an idea.