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All of our current leaders as using God to justify their terrible actions. So religion doesn’t seem to be very good at teaching morals either.

jadar 8mo ago
Either god is me (secularism) or god is something outside me (Christianity). One is going to be better than the other. It matters which one. Everyone has an answer, and it affects your morals. Whether or not you are consistent brings you back to that same question: “who says?”
- yoyohello13 8mo ago
  I understand the argument, but the number of reprehensible Christians (or other flavor of religion) out in the world doesn’t seem to back up the claim that viewing God outside oneself leads to better moral results.
- scotty79 8mo ago
  > who says? Only people can say things. And following people that start by lying that they have unique and superior insight into what things ought to be is not a good strategy. Secular is just saying, we are all in this together as equals, let's figure things out, here's what we got thus far.
- donkeybeer 8mo ago
  Option C: God doesn't exist as far as is currently known
  - Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
    Option D: God may exist but has no perceivable after consequence and doesn't take part in any aspect of our day to day lives which are governed by physics (Deism) Option E: God may or may not exist but once again, has no effect on our lives. (agnosticism) So all option C), D), E) [I don't think that the concept of hell/heaven exists in it] have the same impact IMO that esentially there isn't any consequence on our day to day live and we are all gonna be just void when we die. Nothingness, From here, we can approach towards what is the meaning of life and add onto the existenialism to find ones own meanings and that itself becomes a bedrock of morality I personally fall somewhere along C), D), E) myself but I don't like to wonder about where exactly because it doesn't really have an impact on my life. I also sometimes fall into B) (God is outside me) in times of troubles to somehow get out of trouble or find strength if I am unable to find within myself during that time. Logically, it might not make sense for me to believe in god during times of troubles if I can't have logic find the same meaning during not times of troubles. But I do think that humans are driven by emotions not logic at its core so its best to be light on yourself. Also I feel gratitude towards the universe rather than god and the things which help me in my life during times of joy sometimes. I also sometimes believe in rituals/festivals because they are part of my culture/community and it brings me joy at times. But I have enough freeway leverage within all of this that I dictate this as my choice of life and If I see any religious figure person or anything being misused or see faults in any rituals being cruel. I don't feel dear to them and can quickly call anything out and be secular in the sense that I respect other people's rituals to be in co-existence with mine as long as they are peaceful about it because the element of coexistence is only possible within the elements of being peaceful/society being cooperative at large and I hold both people of my community/outside my community to the same standard and am quick to call out if new faults start to happen from my community but also from any other community. (Calling spade a spade)
    - donkeybeer 8mo ago
      Yes all of those options would be equivalent from our point of view so you can believe in any of those as far as best present evidence goes.
pjmlp 8mo ago
That justification is so rediculous for anyone that can think, like which side should He take?
Alan_Writer 8mo ago
This happened throughout history, not just now. Religion is used as an instrument, but does not necessarily reflect the underlying meaning. There's only hunger for power. Man's essence.
ghywertelling 8mo ago
Erwin Schrödinger might have abused children because why not, "everything is a wave after all. does it really matter what one wave does to another?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger#Sexual_abuse_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger#Sexual_...
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
  Both can be true that Leaders can use god to justify their terrible actions and Scientists can use theories/philosophies to justify their terrible actions too. Justification of any evil action to consider oneself as a good guy might be a human quality. That being said, Majority of wars/conflicts in the past have sadly been because of religions and that number doesn't seem to be stopping and is still continuing to this day sadly.

jadar 8mo ago

Either god is me (secularism) or god is something outside me (Christianity). One is going to be better than the other. It matters which one. Everyone has an answer, and it affects your morals. Whether or not you are consistent brings you back to that same question: “who says?”

yoyohello13 8mo ago
I understand the argument, but the number of reprehensible Christians (or other flavor of religion) out in the world doesn’t seem to back up the claim that viewing God outside oneself leads to better moral results.
scotty79 8mo ago
> who says? Only people can say things. And following people that start by lying that they have unique and superior insight into what things ought to be is not a good strategy. Secular is just saying, we are all in this together as equals, let's figure things out, here's what we got thus far.
donkeybeer 8mo ago
Option C: God doesn't exist as far as is currently known
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
  Option D: God may exist but has no perceivable after consequence and doesn't take part in any aspect of our day to day lives which are governed by physics (Deism) Option E: God may or may not exist but once again, has no effect on our lives. (agnosticism) So all option C), D), E) [I don't think that the concept of hell/heaven exists in it] have the same impact IMO that esentially there isn't any consequence on our day to day live and we are all gonna be just void when we die. Nothingness, From here, we can approach towards what is the meaning of life and add onto the existenialism to find ones own meanings and that itself becomes a bedrock of morality I personally fall somewhere along C), D), E) myself but I don't like to wonder about where exactly because it doesn't really have an impact on my life. I also sometimes fall into B) (God is outside me) in times of troubles to somehow get out of trouble or find strength if I am unable to find within myself during that time. Logically, it might not make sense for me to believe in god during times of troubles if I can't have logic find the same meaning during not times of troubles. But I do think that humans are driven by emotions not logic at its core so its best to be light on yourself. Also I feel gratitude towards the universe rather than god and the things which help me in my life during times of joy sometimes. I also sometimes believe in rituals/festivals because they are part of my culture/community and it brings me joy at times. But I have enough freeway leverage within all of this that I dictate this as my choice of life and If I see any religious figure person or anything being misused or see faults in any rituals being cruel. I don't feel dear to them and can quickly call anything out and be secular in the sense that I respect other people's rituals to be in co-existence with mine as long as they are peaceful about it because the element of coexistence is only possible within the elements of being peaceful/society being cooperative at large and I hold both people of my community/outside my community to the same standard and am quick to call out if new faults start to happen from my community but also from any other community. (Calling spade a spade)
  - donkeybeer 8mo ago
    Yes all of those options would be equivalent from our point of view so you can believe in any of those as far as best present evidence goes.

pjmlp 8mo ago

That justification is so rediculous for anyone that can think, like which side should He take?

Alan_Writer 8mo ago

This happened throughout history, not just now. Religion is used as an instrument, but does not necessarily reflect the underlying meaning. There's only hunger for power. Man's essence.

ghywertelling 8mo ago

Erwin Schrödinger might have abused children because why not, "everything is a wave after all. does it really matter what one wave does to another?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger#Sexual_abuse_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger#Sexual_...

Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
Both can be true that Leaders can use god to justify their terrible actions and Scientists can use theories/philosophies to justify their terrible actions too. Justification of any evil action to consider oneself as a good guy might be a human quality. That being said, Majority of wars/conflicts in the past have sadly been because of religions and that number doesn't seem to be stopping and is still continuing to this day sadly.