5 ms·

What have they ruined, exactly? You can do all the same things you used to, can’t you?

bluefirebrand 7mo ago
I'm not spending my precious time on this earth reviewing code from my coworkers that they couldn't be bothered to write without using LLMs And that's really just the tip of the iceberg. LLM usage metrics being introduced by management to ensure the licenses they pay for are being used. New productivity metrics that require LLMs and low standards to reach, and that's before we even get into my ethical problems with the technology So, yes. Their existence is ruining my love for technology
- hyperhello 7mo ago
  I mean, if it’s that bad they’ll be released from service at your company, and you’ll be recognized as superior. This only helps you.
  - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
    In my experience management only cares about velocity, not quality. I believe this is pretty universal across the industry When hand writing code we could strike a tolerable balance between quality and velocity. With LLM coding we cannot. Velocity is high, quality is low. I don't believe there is any fixing that despite what the many LLM coding shills on this website would have you believe
- hellojesus 7mo ago
  My coworkers have started writing code with copilot. It's kind of okay but also not really. I've been enjoying teaching them how the things they're producing with llms work, because they have no idea and constantly break their builds because of it. And at the same time it helps me improve my craft because I get to refine the bits of which I don't have full understanding as well as see some implementations I wouldn't have voluntarily chosen previously, which allows me to explore their benefits and limitations. Llms actually make this process slightly less painful because at least now when I send them away to work for the day they have something to review when we next meet vs. pre-llm days when they would basically have wrote nothing because they were stuck. I still don't use llms to code beyond whatever search providers autoprovide when I'm looking up documentation. I don't think I'm good enough to use them. Maybe one day. But for now I don't have to because I'm not facing the breadlines for writing things myself.
chickenimprint 7mo ago
You can't get paid doing them. If coding goes away, decades of experience become worthless instantly. Not all of it, but the vast majority, enough to justify starting over in another career. In that world, it will have become more cost-effective for most companies to spend most of their budget on inference vendors and employ a few low-paid LLM wranglers, even if the final output is of terrible quality. No point in competing for that kind of employment experience with that kind of pay.
- dasil003 7mo ago
  I really don't get this point of view at all. I acknowledge that two yours into my quarter century of experience, most of what I knew was easily replaceable by the AI of today. After two decades of experience however, syntax and specific algorithm and language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. The idea that low-paid LLM wranglers are going to push out the experienced engineers just doesn't wash. What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces, but the remaining ones actually get paid more, because writing code is no longer the long pole, and having fewer minds designing the system at a high level will allow for more cohesive higher-level design, and less focus on local artesenal code quality. To be honest AI is just the catalyst and excuse for overhiring that happened due to the gold rush over the last 20 years related to the internet and smart phone revolutions, zero-interest rate, and pandemic effect.
  - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
    > What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces So you just believe you'll be one of the ones left behind? Best of luck to you
  - tetris11 7mo ago
    > language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. Do you not see LLM's catching up with your experience fast? You might not lose your job, but you'll definitely have to take a pay cut
  - 7mo ago

I'm not spending my precious time on this earth reviewing code from my coworkers that they couldn't be bothered to write without using LLMs And that's really just the tip of the iceberg. LLM usage metrics being introduced by management to ensure the licenses they pay for are being used. New productivity metrics that require LLMs and low standards to reach, and that's before we even get into my ethical problems with the technology So, yes. Their existence is ruining my love for technology

hyperhello 7mo ago
I mean, if it’s that bad they’ll be released from service at your company, and you’ll be recognized as superior. This only helps you.
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  In my experience management only cares about velocity, not quality. I believe this is pretty universal across the industry When hand writing code we could strike a tolerable balance between quality and velocity. With LLM coding we cannot. Velocity is high, quality is low. I don't believe there is any fixing that despite what the many LLM coding shills on this website would have you believe
hellojesus 7mo ago
My coworkers have started writing code with copilot. It's kind of okay but also not really. I've been enjoying teaching them how the things they're producing with llms work, because they have no idea and constantly break their builds because of it. And at the same time it helps me improve my craft because I get to refine the bits of which I don't have full understanding as well as see some implementations I wouldn't have voluntarily chosen previously, which allows me to explore their benefits and limitations. Llms actually make this process slightly less painful because at least now when I send them away to work for the day they have something to review when we next meet vs. pre-llm days when they would basically have wrote nothing because they were stuck. I still don't use llms to code beyond whatever search providers autoprovide when I'm looking up documentation. I don't think I'm good enough to use them. Maybe one day. But for now I don't have to because I'm not facing the breadlines for writing things myself.

chickenimprint 7mo ago

You can't get paid doing them. If coding goes away, decades of experience become worthless instantly. Not all of it, but the vast majority, enough to justify starting over in another career. In that world, it will have become more cost-effective for most companies to spend most of their budget on inference vendors and employ a few low-paid LLM wranglers, even if the final output is of terrible quality. No point in competing for that kind of employment experience with that kind of pay.

dasil003 7mo ago
I really don't get this point of view at all. I acknowledge that two yours into my quarter century of experience, most of what I knew was easily replaceable by the AI of today. After two decades of experience however, syntax and specific algorithm and language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. The idea that low-paid LLM wranglers are going to push out the experienced engineers just doesn't wash. What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces, but the remaining ones actually get paid more, because writing code is no longer the long pole, and having fewer minds designing the system at a high level will allow for more cohesive higher-level design, and less focus on local artesenal code quality. To be honest AI is just the catalyst and excuse for overhiring that happened due to the gold rush over the last 20 years related to the internet and smart phone revolutions, zero-interest rate, and pandemic effect.
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  > What I think is much more likely to happen is the number of software engineers greatly reduces So you just believe you'll be one of the ones left behind? Best of luck to you
- tetris11 7mo ago
  > language knowledge was perhaps 10% of my value, nowhere near the vast majority. Do you not see LLM's catching up with your experience fast? You might not lose your job, but you'll definitely have to take a pay cut
- 7mo ago