6 ms·

>They would not have put out this macbook if it was going to be a subpar experience. "You're holding it wrong" - Steve Jobs Apple has put out plenty of subpar

by leptons 8mo ago

>They would not have put out this macbook if it was going to be a subpar experience. "You're holding it wrong" - Steve Jobs Apple has put out plenty of subpar experiences in the past, and there's no reason they wouldn't do it in the future.

thewebguyd 8mo ago
And despite antenna gate, the iPhone 4 was still the best smartphone of that year and leaps ahead of it's closest competition (the Galaxy S), and remained the #1 best selling smartphone at year after launch
- leptons 8mo ago
  You can only buy hardware that runs Apple software from Apple, but Android mobile devices far outsell Apple devices and always have. Apple is and always has been a minority player in the overall smartphone market (and desktop/laptop as well). Globally, Android has had about 70% to 75% market share, and Apple has always had a much smaller slice of the total. iPhones are not as popular as you seem to think they are. You don't have to believe me, the data proves it: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/#monthly-200901-202602 https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/...
  - thewebguyd 8mo ago
    Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the iPhone 4 was the single most purchased smartphone model in the US between 2010 and 2011 (during antenna gate that we are talking about). Android has the majority share because "Android" is anything from a $100 piece of junk to a $1200 phone. If you look at only the premium market, Apple holds ~70% market share. Despite antenna gate, it still sold plenty, which proves the point about brand trust that the thread was about. If the brand equity wasn't there, the Galaxy S would have out sold the iPhone 4, but it didn't, it sold half as much.
    - leptons 8mo ago
      >Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the iPhone 4 was the single most purchased smartphone model in the US between 2010 and 2011 Are you trying to give Apple some kind of tech participation trophy? Because that's all you're doing. >If you look at only the premium market, Apple holds ~70% market share. Sure, Apple is a luxury brand, and so not many people can afford it. Nor should they be spending the ridiculous amount of money Apple normally charges. >Despite antenna gate, it still sold plenty, which proves the point about brand trust that the thread was about. Reality distortion field still in effect in 2026. >If the brand equity wasn't there, the Galaxy S would have out sold the iPhone 4, but it didn't, it sold half as much. I don't care about brands as much as you seem to, that much I'm sure about. Your precious Apple could never do you wrong, we get it.
    - 71bw 8mo ago
      >If the brand equity wasn't there, the Galaxy S would have out sold the iPhone 4, but it didn't, it sold half as much. Which means just *one* of the Android flagships - which are a much, much more segmentated market! - sold half as much as the iOS competitor.
  - alwillis 8mo ago
    > but Android mobile devices far outsell Apple devices and always have "far outsell" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. The iPhone has a market share of 60% in the US [1]. The leading Android manufacturer Samsung has a market share of 22% in the US. These numbers are from last year; the iPhone sold like hotcakes in the European 5, the US (of course), Australia, Mainland China and Japan [2]. BTW, the European 5 consists of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the UK. Apple by itself globally makes up about 43% of the revenue in the smartphone market [3]. Yes, devices running the Android operating system sell a lot of units; the majority of them are no-frills devices from manufacturers most people have never heard of. Which is fine—having a phone is better than not having one. But don’t act like Android is some kind of juggernaut; these five markets represent 2.24 billion people and 60% of the world's GDP. Android isn’t the bestselling phone in any of these countries. # Top Selling Models European 5 | Rank | Model | |------|--------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 2 | Samsung Galaxy A55 | | 3 | iPhone 15 | | 4 | iPhone 16 | | 5 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | US | Rank | Model | |------|-------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | | 2 | iPhone 16 | | 3 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 4 | iPhone 15 | | 5 | iPhone 14 | Australia | Rank | Model | |------|-------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | | 2 | iPhone 16 | | 3 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 4 | iPhone 12 | | 5 | Samsung Galaxy A35| Mainland China | Rank | Model | |------|--------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | | 2 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 3 | iPhone 16 | | 4 | Huawei Mate 60 Pro | | 5 | Huawei Mate 60 | Japan | Rank | Model | |------|--------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 | | 2 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 3 | iPhone 15 | | 4 | iPhone 14 | | 5 | Google Pixel 8a | [1]: https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united... [2]: "iPhone 16 secures top-selling global smartphone model in competitive holiday period" — https://www.kantar.com/inspiration/technology/iphone-16-secures-top-selling-global-smartphone-model-in-competitive-holiday-period https://www.kantar.com/inspiration/technology/iphone-16-secu... [3]: "iPhone rakes in 3 times the revenue of any rival" — https://www.cultofmac.com/news/iphone-rakes-in-3-times-the-revenue-of-any-rival https://www.cultofmac.com/news/iphone-rakes-in-3-times-the-r...
alwillis 8mo ago
> "You're holding it wrong" - Steve Jobs > Apple has put out plenty of subpar experiences in the past, and there's no reason they wouldn't do it in the future. Come on—that was 16 years ago! Y'all gotta let some things go after a while.
- leptons 8mo ago
  Okay... how about, Apple put the charging port on a wireless mouse on the bottom of the mouse. I could go on, and on...
  - alwillis 8mo ago
    As they say "past performance does not guarantee future results". That version of the Magic Mouse is also over 10 years old…
    - leptons 8mo ago
      Apple's "glass" UI update debacle should be evidence enough to quash any argument you could make. Their current performance leaves a lot to be desired, everyone hates "glass".
      - sbuk 8mo ago
        I like it. Debacle isn't the word you're looking for. "Some loud people on the internet don't like it and the user base has largely been ambivalent towards it. In reality, it's rough around the edges and needs some work."
  - matwood 8mo ago
    Which makes for a great internet complaint, but I’ve owned that mouse for years and it’s never once been a thing I thought about in practice.
kettlecorn 8mo ago
Apple certainly puts out experiences that leave much to be improved but to be pedantic the word 'subpar' implies below the 'par'. If 'par' is set by Microsoft then Apple easily clears it. Nowadays Chromebooks offer more design competition for Apple, and even historically Linux distros have had more ideas for Apple to learn from than Microsoft.
- leptons 8mo ago
  >If 'par' is set by Microsoft then Apple easily clears it That's clearly subjective. What you will accept from Apple is unacceptable to others as garbage, the same as you dismiss anything from Microsoft. >Linux distros have had more ideas for Apple to learn from than Microsoft. And yet Apple just copied Windows Vista with their "glass" monstrosity that is universally hated and has been lambasted widely. Again, you may love that, but that would put you in the minority.
  - kettlecorn 8mo ago
    Obviously it's a subjective discussion but it's still a meaningful subjective discussion. I was deeply into Microsoft products for a while. I got my start coding an indie game for the Xbox, I spent years using Windows Phone and developing an app for the platform, I interned at Microsoft twice and then later worked there as a software engineer for a period. While there I did my best to improve the product I worked on, and I went beyond what most engineers do when thinking about product quality. I would gently and politely email other product teams with bugs or minor product issues that I felt were low hanging fruit. On my own team I was often one of the stronger advocates for the user and for product quality, and sometimes I got pushback for it. My opinion about Microsoft's product culture is not formed lightly. I don't believe Apple is faultless, but I think they demonstrate far more awareness of how their product decisions accrue to a lasting brand. It's not just marketing spin, it's real actionable decisions over decades that accrue to brand perception.
    - leptons 8mo ago
      >While there I did my best to improve the product I worked on, and I went beyond what most engineers do when thinking about product quality. I would gently and politely email other product teams with bugs or minor product issues that I felt were low hanging fruit. On my own team I was often one of the stronger advocates for the user and for product quality, and sometimes I got pushback for it. You've described every company I've ever worked for. I guarantee that Apple does not work any differently. >I don't believe Apple is faultless, but I think they demonstrate far more awareness of how their product decisions accrue to a lasting brand. You're wrong about this, as evidenced by their "glass" debacle. I mean you didn't respond to my comment about that at all, and it's so glaring obvious how bad and pointless "glass" was. Nobody wanted it, nobody needed it, and it made things objectively worse. That wasn't a display of product design acumen, it clearly exposed Apple's flaws in very public fashion.

by leptons 8mo ago

thewebguyd 8mo ago

And despite antenna gate, the iPhone 4 was still the best smartphone of that year and leaps ahead of it's closest competition (the Galaxy S), and remained the #1 best selling smartphone at year after launch

leptons 8mo ago
You can only buy hardware that runs Apple software from Apple, but Android mobile devices far outsell Apple devices and always have. Apple is and always has been a minority player in the overall smartphone market (and desktop/laptop as well). Globally, Android has had about 70% to 75% market share, and Apple has always had a much smaller slice of the total. iPhones are not as popular as you seem to think they are. You don't have to believe me, the data proves it: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/#monthly-200901-202602 https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/...
- thewebguyd 8mo ago
  Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the iPhone 4 was the single most purchased smartphone model in the US between 2010 and 2011 (during antenna gate that we are talking about). Android has the majority share because "Android" is anything from a $100 piece of junk to a $1200 phone. If you look at only the premium market, Apple holds ~70% market share. Despite antenna gate, it still sold plenty, which proves the point about brand trust that the thread was about. If the brand equity wasn't there, the Galaxy S would have out sold the iPhone 4, but it didn't, it sold half as much.
  - leptons 8mo ago
    >Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the iPhone 4 was the single most purchased smartphone model in the US between 2010 and 2011 Are you trying to give Apple some kind of tech participation trophy? Because that's all you're doing. >If you look at only the premium market, Apple holds ~70% market share. Sure, Apple is a luxury brand, and so not many people can afford it. Nor should they be spending the ridiculous amount of money Apple normally charges. >Despite antenna gate, it still sold plenty, which proves the point about brand trust that the thread was about. Reality distortion field still in effect in 2026. >If the brand equity wasn't there, the Galaxy S would have out sold the iPhone 4, but it didn't, it sold half as much. I don't care about brands as much as you seem to, that much I'm sure about. Your precious Apple could never do you wrong, we get it.
  - 71bw 8mo ago
    >If the brand equity wasn't there, the Galaxy S would have out sold the iPhone 4, but it didn't, it sold half as much. Which means just *one* of the Android flagships - which are a much, much more segmentated market! - sold half as much as the iOS competitor.
- alwillis 8mo ago
  > but Android mobile devices far outsell Apple devices and always have "far outsell" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. The iPhone has a market share of 60% in the US [1]. The leading Android manufacturer Samsung has a market share of 22% in the US. These numbers are from last year; the iPhone sold like hotcakes in the European 5, the US (of course), Australia, Mainland China and Japan [2]. BTW, the European 5 consists of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the UK. Apple by itself globally makes up about 43% of the revenue in the smartphone market [3]. Yes, devices running the Android operating system sell a lot of units; the majority of them are no-frills devices from manufacturers most people have never heard of. Which is fine—having a phone is better than not having one. But don’t act like Android is some kind of juggernaut; these five markets represent 2.24 billion people and 60% of the world's GDP. Android isn’t the bestselling phone in any of these countries. # Top Selling Models European 5 | Rank | Model | |------|--------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 2 | Samsung Galaxy A55 | | 3 | iPhone 15 | | 4 | iPhone 16 | | 5 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | US | Rank | Model | |------|-------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | | 2 | iPhone 16 | | 3 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 4 | iPhone 15 | | 5 | iPhone 14 | Australia | Rank | Model | |------|-------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | | 2 | iPhone 16 | | 3 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 4 | iPhone 12 | | 5 | Samsung Galaxy A35| Mainland China | Rank | Model | |------|--------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 Pro Max | | 2 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 3 | iPhone 16 | | 4 | Huawei Mate 60 Pro | | 5 | Huawei Mate 60 | Japan | Rank | Model | |------|--------------------| | 1 | iPhone 16 | | 2 | iPhone 16 Pro | | 3 | iPhone 15 | | 4 | iPhone 14 | | 5 | Google Pixel 8a | [1]: https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/united... [2]: "iPhone 16 secures top-selling global smartphone model in competitive holiday period" — https://www.kantar.com/inspiration/technology/iphone-16-secures-top-selling-global-smartphone-model-in-competitive-holiday-period https://www.kantar.com/inspiration/technology/iphone-16-secu... [3]: "iPhone rakes in 3 times the revenue of any rival" — https://www.cultofmac.com/news/iphone-rakes-in-3-times-the-revenue-of-any-rival https://www.cultofmac.com/news/iphone-rakes-in-3-times-the-r...

alwillis 8mo ago

> "You're holding it wrong" - Steve Jobs > Apple has put out plenty of subpar experiences in the past, and there's no reason they wouldn't do it in the future. Come on—that was 16 years ago! Y'all gotta let some things go after a while.

leptons 8mo ago
Okay... how about, Apple put the charging port on a wireless mouse on the bottom of the mouse. I could go on, and on...
- alwillis 8mo ago
  As they say "past performance does not guarantee future results". That version of the Magic Mouse is also over 10 years old…
  - leptons 8mo ago
    Apple's "glass" UI update debacle should be evidence enough to quash any argument you could make. Their current performance leaves a lot to be desired, everyone hates "glass".
    - sbuk 8mo ago
      I like it. Debacle isn't the word you're looking for. "Some loud people on the internet don't like it and the user base has largely been ambivalent towards it. In reality, it's rough around the edges and needs some work."
- matwood 8mo ago
  Which makes for a great internet complaint, but I’ve owned that mouse for years and it’s never once been a thing I thought about in practice.

kettlecorn 8mo ago

Apple certainly puts out experiences that leave much to be improved but to be pedantic the word 'subpar' implies below the 'par'. If 'par' is set by Microsoft then Apple easily clears it. Nowadays Chromebooks offer more design competition for Apple, and even historically Linux distros have had more ideas for Apple to learn from than Microsoft.

leptons 8mo ago
>If 'par' is set by Microsoft then Apple easily clears it That's clearly subjective. What you will accept from Apple is unacceptable to others as garbage, the same as you dismiss anything from Microsoft. >Linux distros have had more ideas for Apple to learn from than Microsoft. And yet Apple just copied Windows Vista with their "glass" monstrosity that is universally hated and has been lambasted widely. Again, you may love that, but that would put you in the minority.
- kettlecorn 8mo ago
  Obviously it's a subjective discussion but it's still a meaningful subjective discussion. I was deeply into Microsoft products for a while. I got my start coding an indie game for the Xbox, I spent years using Windows Phone and developing an app for the platform, I interned at Microsoft twice and then later worked there as a software engineer for a period. While there I did my best to improve the product I worked on, and I went beyond what most engineers do when thinking about product quality. I would gently and politely email other product teams with bugs or minor product issues that I felt were low hanging fruit. On my own team I was often one of the stronger advocates for the user and for product quality, and sometimes I got pushback for it. My opinion about Microsoft's product culture is not formed lightly. I don't believe Apple is faultless, but I think they demonstrate far more awareness of how their product decisions accrue to a lasting brand. It's not just marketing spin, it's real actionable decisions over decades that accrue to brand perception.
  - leptons 8mo ago
    >While there I did my best to improve the product I worked on, and I went beyond what most engineers do when thinking about product quality. I would gently and politely email other product teams with bugs or minor product issues that I felt were low hanging fruit. On my own team I was often one of the stronger advocates for the user and for product quality, and sometimes I got pushback for it. You've described every company I've ever worked for. I guarantee that Apple does not work any differently. >I don't believe Apple is faultless, but I think they demonstrate far more awareness of how their product decisions accrue to a lasting brand. You're wrong about this, as evidenced by their "glass" debacle. I mean you didn't respond to my comment about that at all, and it's so glaring obvious how bad and pointless "glass" was. Nobody wanted it, nobody needed it, and it made things objectively worse. That wasn't a display of product design acumen, it clearly exposed Apple's flaws in very public fashion.