7 ms·

It seems a lot of these examples are from 'internet marketing businesses' or people selling info products on "how to make money online" or "how to create an ema

It seems a lot of these examples are from 'internet marketing businesses' or people selling info products on "how to make money online" or "how to create an email auto responder". I've been following the internet marketing niche on and off for a while now so maybe thats why I have certain alarms going off in my head when I see words like: "What’s your biggest fear and frustration?" - Seriously, that is taught in every internet marketing eBook ever made. And emails with really long pitches that try to be overly friendly and act like we are best friends and mention things like "Tomorrow I’ll be sending you the “Internet Business Toolkit!” and "since we’ve found each other, I’ll be hooking you up with all sorts of cool stuff" Maybe it works, but to me it just seems so cheesy after seeing the same email format and same tactics from thousands of other wannabe "internet marketing gurus".

k-mcgrady 14y ago
When I see emails like that the first thing that I think is 'spam'. It works though. I know a few people who do internet marketing and make around £15-25k per month. The majority of the work they do is through emails just like you described.
- handzhiev 14y ago
  But don't forget that for the few people you know there are another few thousands who use the same tactics and don't manage to make a dime.
  - k-mcgrady 14y ago
    Good point. I know even more of those :)
- 35636 14y ago
  I don't know anyone who actually makes that much in profit. Most info products leverage information asymmetry. They aren't really "products" in my mind, much closer to scams than anything else. They find ignorant people, string them along, and then sell them information that is either worthless or available for free with the vague promise of "making money online", whatever that means. In some cases the information actually has negative value because it's so wrong. Some people DO get large checks at the end of the month running this kind of scam, but those same people also spend thousands per month on paid advertising trying to shovel people into their lead capture system. Adwords, CPM buys on shady networks, whatever works. I don't know of, and have never seen any evidence that you can, actually make £15-25k per month in profit. They usually leave that part out. If you are selling some worthless ebook for $10, you can push plenty of them through Adwords alone, but it's not going to be free, and worthless info products don't scale well once you deplete the initial pool of ignorance. You'd be much better off with fiction, actually. The whole of "Internet Marketing" is people pretending like they are making bank, but they have little net worth and they put in insanely long hours to walk away with very little profit. Most of that "4hr work week garbage" is the same thing.
  - maneesh 14y ago
    I know many who make this much in profit....and Mixergy features many of them.
    - 35636 14y ago
      Unless they are scamming people really hard and selling info to boiler rooms nonstop to run serious scams, you probably don't. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of desperate people out there who will buy a $99 PDF with vague promises of "CEO income from home" and all that nonsense, but you still have to buy people. Yes, you can engineer a pyramid scheme into the program, but that only goes so far. There are a few career people who do this professionally, but they are few and far between and they've spent decades figuring out what scams work and what scams don't. Most of the people on Hacker News want to start real businesses, that sell real products, that do real things. There are other forums out there for career snakeoil salesmen. I have never seen an "info product" in my life that was honest, or actually added value to society. Ever. I've expensed a number of them for research throughout the years, mostly to try and get a better understanding of the dynamics behind the quasi-viral spread of these things. I've never seen a legitimate one, even successful ones by pro-scam artists, that really struck me as a worth while business venture compared to all other alternatives out there. It's only when you get into straight up fraud that it really starts to "make sense" from a profits standpoint. What I have seen a lot of is people who look like they are doing well because their cashflow has gotten so massive. $20k, $30k, $40k+/mo is not unreasonable. But the expenses grow as well, and eventually you have to pay out or the scheme collapses. So you have the cash-flow and credit to buy a fancy car or rent a fancy house, but you can't actually ever own anything unless you cross the line and start defrauding people.
      - MDS100 14y ago
        http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/home http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/home these are some products that can be worth their money (depending on who you are).
        14y ago
maneesh 14y ago
The trick is to not use the same tactics as wannabe "internet marketing gurus." You can fit the strategies that Michael is speaking of into a number of other businesses. In fact, I'm always surprised the lack of email strategy by tech companies. When a user comes to your site, there are methods of introducing him to your product that isn't a hard-sell "You need this product--sign up now." You need to introduce them to your product before you make a sale. So you can offer a giveaway that entices a user join a newsletter. Then you send interesting emails---emails that a reader appreciates being sent. The kind they actually read till the end, and think it was a good decision to read. This builds trust. But the next step? You introduce them your product, show them why they will get a benefit from it, and then offer them the product---and because they trust you, and understand where it comes from, the user will be likely to buy it. I'm working on something similar with RescueTime---introducing users to the product with a more story-telling angle.
- will_lam 14y ago
  Interesting, do you mean you're working with the RescueTime on a consulting basis to craft their email drip strategy?
- lucaspiller 14y ago
  OT: RescueTime looks interesting, I wouldn't mind giving it a go, but the two week trial seems a bit short to be able to properly see whether it is working. I wouldn't mind paying for a few months at only $6, but payment is done manually, so I don't have that option.
anselm_eickhoff 14y ago
You said what I thought much more eloquently. I found the business models and example emails really spammy if not even scammy. If what you offer is so vague that you have to do those silly engagement tricks, maybe it doesn't have real value.

k-mcgrady 14y ago

When I see emails like that the first thing that I think is 'spam'. It works though. I know a few people who do internet marketing and make around £15-25k per month. The majority of the work they do is through emails just like you described.

handzhiev 14y ago
But don't forget that for the few people you know there are another few thousands who use the same tactics and don't manage to make a dime.
- k-mcgrady 14y ago
  Good point. I know even more of those :)
35636 14y ago
I don't know anyone who actually makes that much in profit. Most info products leverage information asymmetry. They aren't really "products" in my mind, much closer to scams than anything else. They find ignorant people, string them along, and then sell them information that is either worthless or available for free with the vague promise of "making money online", whatever that means. In some cases the information actually has negative value because it's so wrong. Some people DO get large checks at the end of the month running this kind of scam, but those same people also spend thousands per month on paid advertising trying to shovel people into their lead capture system. Adwords, CPM buys on shady networks, whatever works. I don't know of, and have never seen any evidence that you can, actually make £15-25k per month in profit. They usually leave that part out. If you are selling some worthless ebook for $10, you can push plenty of them through Adwords alone, but it's not going to be free, and worthless info products don't scale well once you deplete the initial pool of ignorance. You'd be much better off with fiction, actually. The whole of "Internet Marketing" is people pretending like they are making bank, but they have little net worth and they put in insanely long hours to walk away with very little profit. Most of that "4hr work week garbage" is the same thing.
- maneesh 14y ago
  I know many who make this much in profit....and Mixergy features many of them.
  - 35636 14y ago
    Unless they are scamming people really hard and selling info to boiler rooms nonstop to run serious scams, you probably don't. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of desperate people out there who will buy a $99 PDF with vague promises of "CEO income from home" and all that nonsense, but you still have to buy people. Yes, you can engineer a pyramid scheme into the program, but that only goes so far. There are a few career people who do this professionally, but they are few and far between and they've spent decades figuring out what scams work and what scams don't. Most of the people on Hacker News want to start real businesses, that sell real products, that do real things. There are other forums out there for career snakeoil salesmen. I have never seen an "info product" in my life that was honest, or actually added value to society. Ever. I've expensed a number of them for research throughout the years, mostly to try and get a better understanding of the dynamics behind the quasi-viral spread of these things. I've never seen a legitimate one, even successful ones by pro-scam artists, that really struck me as a worth while business venture compared to all other alternatives out there. It's only when you get into straight up fraud that it really starts to "make sense" from a profits standpoint. What I have seen a lot of is people who look like they are doing well because their cashflow has gotten so massive. $20k, $30k, $40k+/mo is not unreasonable. But the expenses grow as well, and eventually you have to pay out or the scheme collapses. So you have the cash-flow and credit to buy a fancy car or rent a fancy house, but you can't actually ever own anything unless you cross the line and start defrauding people.
    - MDS100 14y ago
      http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/home http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/home these are some products that can be worth their money (depending on who you are).
      - 14y ago

maneesh 14y ago

The trick is to not use the same tactics as wannabe "internet marketing gurus." You can fit the strategies that Michael is speaking of into a number of other businesses. In fact, I'm always surprised the lack of email strategy by tech companies. When a user comes to your site, there are methods of introducing him to your product that isn't a hard-sell "You need this product--sign up now." You need to introduce them to your product before you make a sale. So you can offer a giveaway that entices a user join a newsletter. Then you send interesting emails---emails that a reader appreciates being sent. The kind they actually read till the end, and think it was a good decision to read. This builds trust. But the next step? You introduce them your product, show them why they will get a benefit from it, and then offer them the product---and because they trust you, and understand where it comes from, the user will be likely to buy it. I'm working on something similar with RescueTime---introducing users to the product with a more story-telling angle.

will_lam 14y ago
Interesting, do you mean you're working with the RescueTime on a consulting basis to craft their email drip strategy?
lucaspiller 14y ago
OT: RescueTime looks interesting, I wouldn't mind giving it a go, but the two week trial seems a bit short to be able to properly see whether it is working. I wouldn't mind paying for a few months at only $6, but payment is done manually, so I don't have that option.

anselm_eickhoff 14y ago

You said what I thought much more eloquently. I found the business models and example emails really spammy if not even scammy. If what you offer is so vague that you have to do those silly engagement tricks, maybe it doesn't have real value.