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One of the first things Steve Jobs did when he came back to Apple in 1996/97 is that he took a shredder and a flamethrower to Apple's product lines. He'd ask ma

One of the first things Steve Jobs did when he came back to Apple in 1996/97 is that he took a shredder and a flamethrower to Apple's product lines. He'd ask managers, "which one should I tell my friends to buy?" And if they couldn't give an answer, he'd kill the line. Or so the story goes, https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/how-steve-jobs-saved-apple/220604 https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/how-steve-jo... Big companies drift away from the ground truth of their employees and customers over time. Without someone highly focused coordinating things, it's easier to create a "new" product and call it a day than it is to innovate. And when you're big it takes years, decades even, for the cracks to eventually show, but show they will. Because ask yourself, if you were telling your friend to buy a Macbook, which one would you tell them to buy? ––– edit: just to clarify, currently Apple's lineup includes the "What's a computer?" iPad – $349+, iPad Mini - $500+, iPad Pro – $999+ and iPad Air – $599+. These come with a pencil and a magic keyboard. Also some of them are more powerful than the A18 Macbook Neo. Then there's the Macbook Neo - $600+, 13" Macbook Air - $1,099+, 15" Macbook Air – $1,299+, 14" Macbook Pro – $1,699+, 16" Macbook Pro - $2,699+. Who are all of these things for? Why does the iPad Air exist with the magic keyboard alongside the Macbook Neo? That's the same keyboard attached to a less powerful processor and a touchless display for a spitting-distance price.

doctoboggan 8mo ago
I think this is now the one you should be telling your friend to get (unless they are a developer or professional in which case they probably aren’t asking your opinion)
jaredklewis 8mo ago
> Because ask yourself, if you were telling your friend to buy a Macbook, which one would you tell them to buy! Depending on their budget and needs, a Neo, Air, or Pro.
gyomu 8mo ago
When Steve came back Apple was months from bankruptcy; their product lineup was full of duds. Today Apple is the most profitable company in the world, and every product line is ruthlessly optimized/scrutinized to maximize their revenue/supply chain use/suss out consumer needs for the next cycle. There isn’t a world where Apple has a $4T market cap and where their product offering fits in a neat 2x2.
scrivna 8mo ago
MacBook Air - mid range mid price, good quality, basically as functional as the Pro now. The price of the Neo is very compelling if they want it for light duty work though. And obviously high end is high end but those people know who they are
massysett 8mo ago
Easy: MacBook Air. The friend is asking this question, so that’s what they need. If they needed a MacBook Pro, they wouldn’t be asking this question. If they wanted to spend as little as possible, they would have already bought something cheap, like a PC or Chromebook or now this Neo, so they wouldn’t be asking this question.
- Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
  However, with the recent Macbook Neo. I actually went ahead and recommended Neo. Especially to a friend of mine whose going into college soon and has asked me what they should buy. Now the 8gb can be concern to some but not to many IMO. And I am also feeling just a bit optimistic that Apple will realize that the largest criticism of this product can be that it doesn't have 16GB otherwise even more people can buy so in the future, I expect 16 GB to be possible too (When Ram bubble finally bursts)
ViktorRay 8mo ago
Because ask yourself, if you were telling your friend to buy a Macbook, which one would you tell them to buy? Well first I would ask them what they are planning to use the Macbook for. Then I would make the recommendation. There is Macbook Neo for basic stuff. Macbook Air for regular stuff and Macbook Pro for gangsta stuff. It seems there is still good differentiation between the Macbook lines.
- danesparza 8mo ago
  I guess I'm just an OG to Apple. Macbook pro every damn time.
  - tencentshill 8mo ago
    $1700 is a lot for most people, and they don't have their entire jobs on it.
    - ghost-of-dmr 8mo ago
      My friend in high school got a beefy Power Mac G5 just because his parents could afford it. All he did with it was write essays and browse online.
    - danesparza 8mo ago
      Ah. Well, I'm a software developer. Better hardware = smoother work experience (generally speaking)
stetrain 8mo ago
Until today if they had less than around $800 to spend my answer would be "Don't buy a new MacBook from Apple" because there isn't one that cheap. Maybe look for a used or refurbished M1-M2 model. Today it's the MacBook Neo unless you have a higher budget and want a nicer screen and more power. Then it's the MacBook Air, unless you do serious photography, video, audio, or development work then it's a MacBook Pro. It's still a pretty simple, linear progression up the line. Steve Jobs presided over an era where they were selling: - A white plastic 13" MacBook - An aluminum 13" MacBook - 13", 15", and 17" Macbook Pro - A high end 13" MacBook Air that thermally throttled and was more expensive than most of their other laptops
- addedlovely 8mo ago
  I'm now a 15'' Air user after always being pro. I notice no difference in performance but enjoy the lighter form factor and damn does it run cool compared to the pro. Replacing my iPhone was a nothing burger of choice, on paper the iPhone 15 pro was the best feature set for value vs buying a new iPhone 17, but Apple know that so don't sell the older models directly when the new models come out. There's really limited impactful innovation when you get into the details.
- beemboy 8mo ago
  Yah I think this actually competes with used Airs and older MBPs.
snowwrestler 8mo ago
People habitually misunderstand this moment in Apple’s history. Jobs took a shredder to a complex product line of poorly selling products, produced by a company that was nearly bankrupt. That was the right thing to do at that time. Later when Apple was on sound financial footing, Jobs expanded the product line. That was the right thing to do at that time. With the Neo, Apple now offers 3 lines of laptops: Pro, Air, Neo. This is not substantially different from 2010 when Apple under Jobs offered 3 lines of laptops: MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air.
AdamN 8mo ago
Generally the MacBook Air is incredible and what I generally recommend. If somebody is doing 'more' then it's the MBP. Now with the Neo I even have a recommendation for price sensitive people who may have otherwise gotten a cheap Windows device filled with crapware. I think these are all different markets - $1k seems like a small amount for the MBA but it's too much for quite a few people.
- testing22321 8mo ago
  > If somebody is doing 'more' then it's the MBP I professionally edit tens of thousands of very large RAW photos, edit 4K video all day long, write, web and very light dev work. All that on a used M1 air. Still the fastest computer I’ve ever used. The pro is so insanely powerful there really are only devs (and maybe only ai devs) who need it.
  - AdamN 8mo ago
    MBP has some other advantages too- better display, better speakers/mic, more ports, driving more external displays. But yeah the MBA with an M1 chip is incredibly powerful and an awesome computer.
basch 8mo ago
When Jobs took over Apple he didn’t have a device in a quarter of the world’s pocket.
iovrthoughtthis 8mo ago
Agree, there is a watered down product vision
rick_dalton 8mo ago
I feel like the Mac lineup is still coherent especially compared to basically every other laptop manufacturer. The iPad lineup I don't know.
gib444 8mo ago
> if you were telling your friend to buy a Macbook, which one would you tell them to buy? Easy!: Poor: Neo Middle class: good spec Air Rich: MBP
tim333 8mo ago
I think Steve would have approved of the Neo. The 96/97 lineup was a mess so if a customer asked what to buy you wouldn't know. Now it's fairly simple - Nano for budget users and school, Air for general public, Pro for pros. 1m vid of Jobs on the product line https://youtu.be/VkVs4ZqWgN8 https://youtu.be/VkVs4ZqWgN8

doctoboggan 8mo ago

I think this is now the one you should be telling your friend to get (unless they are a developer or professional in which case they probably aren’t asking your opinion)

jaredklewis 8mo ago

> Because ask yourself, if you were telling your friend to buy a Macbook, which one would you tell them to buy! Depending on their budget and needs, a Neo, Air, or Pro.

gyomu 8mo ago

When Steve came back Apple was months from bankruptcy; their product lineup was full of duds. Today Apple is the most profitable company in the world, and every product line is ruthlessly optimized/scrutinized to maximize their revenue/supply chain use/suss out consumer needs for the next cycle. There isn’t a world where Apple has a $4T market cap and where their product offering fits in a neat 2x2.

scrivna 8mo ago

MacBook Air - mid range mid price, good quality, basically as functional as the Pro now. The price of the Neo is very compelling if they want it for light duty work though. And obviously high end is high end but those people know who they are

massysett 8mo ago

Easy: MacBook Air. The friend is asking this question, so that’s what they need. If they needed a MacBook Pro, they wouldn’t be asking this question. If they wanted to spend as little as possible, they would have already bought something cheap, like a PC or Chromebook or now this Neo, so they wouldn’t be asking this question.

Imustaskforhelp 8mo ago
However, with the recent Macbook Neo. I actually went ahead and recommended Neo. Especially to a friend of mine whose going into college soon and has asked me what they should buy. Now the 8gb can be concern to some but not to many IMO. And I am also feeling just a bit optimistic that Apple will realize that the largest criticism of this product can be that it doesn't have 16GB otherwise even more people can buy so in the future, I expect 16 GB to be possible too (When Ram bubble finally bursts)

ViktorRay 8mo ago

Because ask yourself, if you were telling your friend to buy a Macbook, which one would you tell them to buy? Well first I would ask them what they are planning to use the Macbook for. Then I would make the recommendation. There is Macbook Neo for basic stuff. Macbook Air for regular stuff and Macbook Pro for gangsta stuff. It seems there is still good differentiation between the Macbook lines.

danesparza 8mo ago
I guess I'm just an OG to Apple. Macbook pro every damn time.
- tencentshill 8mo ago
  $1700 is a lot for most people, and they don't have their entire jobs on it.
  - ghost-of-dmr 8mo ago
    My friend in high school got a beefy Power Mac G5 just because his parents could afford it. All he did with it was write essays and browse online.
  - danesparza 8mo ago
    Ah. Well, I'm a software developer. Better hardware = smoother work experience (generally speaking)

stetrain 8mo ago

Until today if they had less than around $800 to spend my answer would be "Don't buy a new MacBook from Apple" because there isn't one that cheap. Maybe look for a used or refurbished M1-M2 model. Today it's the MacBook Neo unless you have a higher budget and want a nicer screen and more power. Then it's the MacBook Air, unless you do serious photography, video, audio, or development work then it's a MacBook Pro. It's still a pretty simple, linear progression up the line. Steve Jobs presided over an era where they were selling: - A white plastic 13" MacBook - An aluminum 13" MacBook - 13", 15", and 17" Macbook Pro - A high end 13" MacBook Air that thermally throttled and was more expensive than most of their other laptops

addedlovely 8mo ago
I'm now a 15'' Air user after always being pro. I notice no difference in performance but enjoy the lighter form factor and damn does it run cool compared to the pro. Replacing my iPhone was a nothing burger of choice, on paper the iPhone 15 pro was the best feature set for value vs buying a new iPhone 17, but Apple know that so don't sell the older models directly when the new models come out. There's really limited impactful innovation when you get into the details.
beemboy 8mo ago
Yah I think this actually competes with used Airs and older MBPs.

snowwrestler 8mo ago

People habitually misunderstand this moment in Apple’s history. Jobs took a shredder to a complex product line of poorly selling products, produced by a company that was nearly bankrupt. That was the right thing to do at that time. Later when Apple was on sound financial footing, Jobs expanded the product line. That was the right thing to do at that time. With the Neo, Apple now offers 3 lines of laptops: Pro, Air, Neo. This is not substantially different from 2010 when Apple under Jobs offered 3 lines of laptops: MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air.

AdamN 8mo ago

Generally the MacBook Air is incredible and what I generally recommend. If somebody is doing 'more' then it's the MBP. Now with the Neo I even have a recommendation for price sensitive people who may have otherwise gotten a cheap Windows device filled with crapware. I think these are all different markets - $1k seems like a small amount for the MBA but it's too much for quite a few people.

testing22321 8mo ago
> If somebody is doing 'more' then it's the MBP I professionally edit tens of thousands of very large RAW photos, edit 4K video all day long, write, web and very light dev work. All that on a used M1 air. Still the fastest computer I’ve ever used. The pro is so insanely powerful there really are only devs (and maybe only ai devs) who need it.
- AdamN 8mo ago
  MBP has some other advantages too- better display, better speakers/mic, more ports, driving more external displays. But yeah the MBA with an M1 chip is incredibly powerful and an awesome computer.

basch 8mo ago

When Jobs took over Apple he didn’t have a device in a quarter of the world’s pocket.

iovrthoughtthis 8mo ago

Agree, there is a watered down product vision

rick_dalton 8mo ago

I feel like the Mac lineup is still coherent especially compared to basically every other laptop manufacturer. The iPad lineup I don't know.

gib444 8mo ago

> if you were telling your friend to buy a Macbook, which one would you tell them to buy? Easy!: Poor: Neo Middle class: good spec Air Rich: MBP

tim333 8mo ago

I think Steve would have approved of the Neo. The 96/97 lineup was a mess so if a customer asked what to buy you wouldn't know. Now it's fairly simple - Nano for budget users and school, Air for general public, Pro for pros. 1m vid of Jobs on the product line https://youtu.be/VkVs4ZqWgN8 https://youtu.be/VkVs4ZqWgN8