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Would be a nightmare to implement and achieve the goal, but I have to say I think it’s more right than wrong. All of the data is very clear about the harms. Ch

Would be a nightmare to implement and achieve the goal, but I have to say I think it’s more right than wrong. All of the data is very clear about the harms. China has restrictions for social media and screen time for kids — how do they implement this?

k1musab1 8mo ago
Passport /citizen ID linked to your WOW account, etc.
- TkTech 8mo ago
  Which has never worked. Korea had a system to prevent kids from gaming after midnight for something like 15 years. All it did was make Korean kids very good at memorizing their parents ID.
  - hnfong 8mo ago
    In China they link the ID to a phone number (via mobile carriers) and the online services require you to authenticate using the phone (SMS etc.) Unless the kids are able to secretly access the parent's phone there's no low-effort way to work around the system. I don't know about Korea but if memorizing an ID number works, then that's just a badly designed system. I'm not sure what your argument is really, unless you're saying there's technically and absolutely no feasible way to securely verify the age of a person before allowing them to access an online service (even if you allow the government to be authoritarian)
    - reactordev 8mo ago
      The point is, where there’s a will, there’s a way.
    - em-bee 8mo ago
      when i signed up for mobile service or for internet service in china (i don't remember the specifics), i was given half a dozen sim cards for use in my family. so they were all tied to my or my wife's name, but used by anyone who needed one. i believe the in-laws got at least one or two, and my kids would have gotten one, had they been old enough to have their own phone. i don't know if there was any rule that would restrict who we give those cards. the actual users of each simcard did not have to identify themselves. so at least then it wasn't about age controls, but it obviously would allow tracing the owner eventually.
  - broken-kebab 8mo ago
    Maybe it does work exactly as intended. It gives parents more leverage to restrict their kids gaming but many parents just don't care. And it's ok I guess, the society probably needs some flexibility in raising the next gen.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
debazel 8mo ago
I actually think this would be easier to implement than many of the current ID verification methods I've seen being pushed. We already have the infrastructure for selling age restricted goods, this is nothing new. Manufacturers that are unable to restrict their hardware in a "child" mode don't have to do anything and could simply continue selling to adults only. It's obvious we're moving in a direction where we are going to get these restrictions in one way or another, and this is the only way I've come up with that doesn't come with serious privacy implications. Most importantly, this solution would be simple for anyone to understand. You don't need to be a cryptography expert to understand there are child safe devices and then there are unrestricted devices for adults.
- cimi_ 8mo ago
  I don’t understand how id-ing the buyer helps? What is the age restricted good here? Are you saying that kids now buy their phones with pocket money without their parents knowing? > It's obvious we're moving in a direction where we are going to get these restrictions in one way or another It’s not obvious, it’s just sad. I still hope reason will prevail in this.
  - cezart 8mo ago
    The age restricted good is an unrestricted computer.
    - Kim_Bruning 8mo ago
      Oh, that actually seems ... bad. On the gripping hand... restricted in which way? I learned to program on the BBC B, for instance. I keep thinking that computers that are actually made to be good for children should be a thing. Perhaps like "A Young lady's Illustrated Primer" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age )
      - gzread 8mo ago
        Did you buy your own BBC B though?
babyshake 8mo ago
It's a nightmare to some extent to prevent underage people from consuming alcohol if you want to phrase it that way. But we don't try to ban stores from selling alcohol because of concerns children will be drinking it. Instead we require the store checks for ID.
philipallstar 8mo ago
> China has restrictions for social media and screen time for kids — how do they implement this? China is much more socially conservative, and less likely to abandon their kids to latest thing.
butterbomb 8mo ago
> how do they implement this? Centralized power and being unafraid to use authoritarian tactics. Also the general cultural ethos of the people.
iamnothere 8mo ago
Why on earth would we be looking to China as a template on how we should run free societies? Are you mad?
- azinman2 8mo ago
  Good ideas can come from anywhere. Shutting yourself off only does a disservice. You don’t need to replicate 100% of another society to recognize individual strengths. https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/09/1077567/china-children-screen-time-regulation/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/09/1077567/china-ch... That describes something very similar to what the OP suggested.
  - iamnothere 8mo ago
    Yeah, sounds like something from an authoritarian police state. > Essentially, this is a cross-platform, cross-device, government-led parental control system that has been painstakingly planned out by Beijing. > The rules are incredibly specific: kids under eight, for instance, can only use smart devices for 40 minutes every day and only consume content about “elementary education, hobbies and interests, and liberal arts education”; when they turn eight, they graduate to 60 minutes of screen time and “entertainment content with positive guidance.” Honestly, this newsletter would have to go on forever to explain all the specifics. We don’t do this in free societies. Let the parents decide.

k1musab1 8mo ago

Passport /citizen ID linked to your WOW account, etc.

TkTech 8mo ago
Which has never worked. Korea had a system to prevent kids from gaming after midnight for something like 15 years. All it did was make Korean kids very good at memorizing their parents ID.
- hnfong 8mo ago
  In China they link the ID to a phone number (via mobile carriers) and the online services require you to authenticate using the phone (SMS etc.) Unless the kids are able to secretly access the parent's phone there's no low-effort way to work around the system. I don't know about Korea but if memorizing an ID number works, then that's just a badly designed system. I'm not sure what your argument is really, unless you're saying there's technically and absolutely no feasible way to securely verify the age of a person before allowing them to access an online service (even if you allow the government to be authoritarian)
  - reactordev 8mo ago
    The point is, where there’s a will, there’s a way.
  - em-bee 8mo ago
    when i signed up for mobile service or for internet service in china (i don't remember the specifics), i was given half a dozen sim cards for use in my family. so they were all tied to my or my wife's name, but used by anyone who needed one. i believe the in-laws got at least one or two, and my kids would have gotten one, had they been old enough to have their own phone. i don't know if there was any rule that would restrict who we give those cards. the actual users of each simcard did not have to identify themselves. so at least then it wasn't about age controls, but it obviously would allow tracing the owner eventually.
- broken-kebab 8mo ago
  Maybe it does work exactly as intended. It gives parents more leverage to restrict their kids gaming but many parents just don't care. And it's ok I guess, the society probably needs some flexibility in raising the next gen.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]

debazel 8mo ago

I actually think this would be easier to implement than many of the current ID verification methods I've seen being pushed. We already have the infrastructure for selling age restricted goods, this is nothing new. Manufacturers that are unable to restrict their hardware in a "child" mode don't have to do anything and could simply continue selling to adults only. It's obvious we're moving in a direction where we are going to get these restrictions in one way or another, and this is the only way I've come up with that doesn't come with serious privacy implications. Most importantly, this solution would be simple for anyone to understand. You don't need to be a cryptography expert to understand there are child safe devices and then there are unrestricted devices for adults.

cimi_ 8mo ago
I don’t understand how id-ing the buyer helps? What is the age restricted good here? Are you saying that kids now buy their phones with pocket money without their parents knowing? > It's obvious we're moving in a direction where we are going to get these restrictions in one way or another It’s not obvious, it’s just sad. I still hope reason will prevail in this.
- cezart 8mo ago
  The age restricted good is an unrestricted computer.
  - Kim_Bruning 8mo ago
    Oh, that actually seems ... bad. On the gripping hand... restricted in which way? I learned to program on the BBC B, for instance. I keep thinking that computers that are actually made to be good for children should be a thing. Perhaps like "A Young lady's Illustrated Primer" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age )
    - gzread 8mo ago
      Did you buy your own BBC B though?

babyshake 8mo ago

It's a nightmare to some extent to prevent underage people from consuming alcohol if you want to phrase it that way. But we don't try to ban stores from selling alcohol because of concerns children will be drinking it. Instead we require the store checks for ID.

philipallstar 8mo ago

> China has restrictions for social media and screen time for kids — how do they implement this? China is much more socially conservative, and less likely to abandon their kids to latest thing.

butterbomb 8mo ago

> how do they implement this? Centralized power and being unafraid to use authoritarian tactics. Also the general cultural ethos of the people.

iamnothere 8mo ago

Why on earth would we be looking to China as a template on how we should run free societies? Are you mad?

azinman2 8mo ago
Good ideas can come from anywhere. Shutting yourself off only does a disservice. You don’t need to replicate 100% of another society to recognize individual strengths. https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/09/1077567/china-children-screen-time-regulation/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/08/09/1077567/china-ch... That describes something very similar to what the OP suggested.
- iamnothere 8mo ago
  Yeah, sounds like something from an authoritarian police state. > Essentially, this is a cross-platform, cross-device, government-led parental control system that has been painstakingly planned out by Beijing. > The rules are incredibly specific: kids under eight, for instance, can only use smart devices for 40 minutes every day and only consume content about “elementary education, hobbies and interests, and liberal arts education”; when they turn eight, they graduate to 60 minutes of screen time and “entertainment content with positive guidance.” Honestly, this newsletter would have to go on forever to explain all the specifics. We don’t do this in free societies. Let the parents decide.