4 ms·

Is Hezbollah hiding in the elementary school that got bombed? Perhaps that’s where the Iranian nuclear research was done? We attacked them. Full stop. And as f

Is Hezbollah hiding in the elementary school that got bombed? Perhaps that’s where the Iranian nuclear research was done? We attacked them. Full stop. And as far as I can tell we haven’t given them any conditions for when we will stop bombing them. In what moral framework do you have to just accept another sovereign, a vastly more powerful one, invading your country without fighting back?

ta20240528 8mo ago
I can't guess what the USA wants other than a distraction from the raping-of- children saga, but I bet Israel would settle for "we acknowledge your right to exist and won't fund or encourage organisations that plan to harm you." If Saudi Arabia can get there…
- kasey_junk 8mo ago
  The world has seen what Israel does when they’re attacked. They don’t get to set moral frameworks anymore.
  - ta20240528 8mo ago
    Agreed. But that wasn't the OP's question.
  - dotancohen 8mo ago
    Who in your opinion sets the moral framework for defending oneself against an enemy which has sworn genocide and proven capable of destroying entire peaceful villages along their borders?
    - arbitrary_name 8mo ago
      you're describing Israel here, right?
      - dotancohen 8mo ago
        Which village in Gaza do you consider to have been peaceful?
    - ta20240528 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - dotancohen 8mo ago
        The IDF did not starve civilians - that lie has already been disproven. I know that you'd love to repeat it until history records it, but by no objective measure was there famine nor starvation in Gaza. Other than the starvation of Hamas' hostages. The images of "starving children" were images of children with other medical conditions. The UN reports used a metric that considered starvation at HALF the threshold used in every other conflict zone, and even with that metric only found "evidence" in a single location once.
        ta20240528 8mo ago
        … but they did bomb apartment buildings in Tehran. I saw that with my own eyes. Stick to the challenge: what won't you accept? Nothing?
        dotancohen 8mo ago
        I accept the bombing of buildings which house those who have declared "Death to America, Death to Israel", and then have proceeded to bomb apartment buildings in Beit Shemesh.
        ta20240528 8mo ago
        That's a war crime.
        dotancohen 8mo ago
        No, that's just war.
        ta20240528 8mo ago
        From The United States Uniform Code of Military Justice: "Attacking civilians is unequivocally a war crime". https://ucmj.us/is-attacking-civilians-a-war-crime/ https://ucmj.us/is-attacking-civilians-a-war-crime/ @dang: you've banned members from this forum before for messy threads merely discussing apartheid. Surely advocating for war crimes — that the US itself considers crimes — is beyond the pale?
    - JasonADrury 8mo ago
      There are no peaceful villages in Israel, they exist only due to recent violence.
      - dotancohen 8mo ago
        You do not consider Kibbutz Beeri to have been a peaceful village bordering Gaza? Or you are just unfamiliar with the area? I challenge you to research Kibbutz Beeri and find a non-peaceful description of the village.
        JasonADrury 7mo ago
        It's really hard to describe "11 points in the Negev" as peaceful. Kibbutz Beeri was created for the sole purpose of justifying a hostile land grab by a bunch of well-funded European immigrants.
  - 875967946536853 8mo ago
    [dead]
- pydry 8mo ago
  israel will never be reasonable. we can bully them or appease them but they cannot be reasoned with. appeasement is seemingly having the same effect it did when chamberlain did it.
- JasonADrury 8mo ago
  Why should Israel have a right to exist? And under what parameters? Within which borders? Who gets citizenship? Surely there's no moral case to be made for Israel having a right to exist in its current religious ethnostate form? People who presumably should have citizenship due to their ties to the land area are excluded because they believe in the wrong ancient delusions.
  - dotancohen 8mo ago
    > Why should Israel have a right to exist? There are at least three basic answers to that question, depending upon one's worldview. 1. Israel does not have a right to exist, in fact no state has "a right to exist". 2. Israel has a right to exist because her citizens successfully defend her from those who wish her not to exist. 3. Israel has a right to exist because the UN declared it. >>> random.randrange(1,4) 3 That's the tough one, but I'll answer under that worldview for the remainder of the reply... > And under what parameters? Under the parameters established by her founders, and the UN, and those established by her neighbouring states. From the Israeli declaration of independence: "WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness" - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_(Israel) From the neighbouring states: "No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Arab_League_summit Need I remind you that seven nations attacked Israel on the day of her independence? That attack caused a million and a half people to become refugees - both Arabs in the holy land and Jews in the rest of the middle east. It also moved the lines of control from the UN partition plan lines to the 1948 cease fire lines - which far favoured the Jewish state and extended in some places to the internationally recognised borders of Mandatory Palestine. > Within which borders? Within the borders of the predecessor state, Mandatory Palestine, just like all other newly-established states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis_juris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis_juris). Had the Arabs founded an Arab state on the remaining lands of Mandatory Palestine then I would argue that Israel should be established only on the land allocated by the UN and the land lost by the Arabs in their failed war. But the Arabs never established a state there. > Who gets citizenship? The people who live within the borders of the new state, and those whom the state determines are eligible for immigration. Just like every other state. In other words, there is no reason to treat Israel any differently than any other state on the planet.
cced 8mo ago
> We attacked them During negotiations, for the second time.
- dotancohen 8mo ago
  Negotiations during which the Iranians continuously stalled and continued their nuclear work. The threat of attack was part of the US negotiation strategy, and the Iranians thought they would call the "bluff". They were wrong.
  - LAC-Tech 8mo ago
    Gentiles have a right to defend themselves.
    - dotancohen 8mo ago
      Which is exactly why I expect the Americans to destroy the nuclear capability of the state that regularly chants "Death to America".
      - LAC-Tech 8mo ago
        Did they chant that before or after hamas beheaded 40 babies? I lose track of all the lies.
        dotancohen 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        LAC-Tech 8mo ago
        They have been chanting "down with America" - that does not mean "murder every single person in America with their missiles (which can't reach America)" "Death to" is a mistranslation of "marg bar", a phrase that is also applied to traffic, and inflation. Do the Iranians want to kill all traffic and all... inflation? We no longer believe your lies.
atsaloli 8mo ago
The primary condition is giving up nuclear ambitions.
- LAC-Tech 8mo ago
  It is too late, Israel already has nuclear weapons.
  - nxm 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - LAC-Tech 8mo ago
      Hasbara. Over 20 years ago the president of Iran talked about "the regime occupying jerusalem must dissappear from the pages of time". IE they want regime change in Israel - which is exactly what the Israelis want in Iran. The difference is Iran is a more responsible international actor and has not started two wars based on this pretext. So yes, I trust a nuclear armed Iran much, much more than I trust a nuclear armed Israel.
      - latentsea 8mo ago
        You'd trust a country that funds terrorist organizations with nukes? Let's not put you in charge...
        LAC-Tech 8mo ago
        Israel funded terrorist organisations in Syria, and in Palestine itself - most famously the group Hamas. Many of the terrorist groups Iran funds operates in areas illegally occupied by the Israeli military, making them legitimate resistance fighters. And Israel itself is a terrorist state - they achieved independence via the actions of Jewish terrorist groups in Palestine like Igrun, Lehi - which included several future Israeli Prime Ministers as members. So no, I do not trust Israel with nukes - they should be disarmed immediately.
Symbiote 8mo ago
It's not quite as clear-cut as it might first seem. The school was either within or bordering a military barracks, depending which way you wish to spin it. Al-Jazeera's article has obvious bias, but plenty of pictures and diagrams: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/3/3/questions-over-minab-girls-school-strike-as-israel-us-deny-involvement https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/3/3/questions-over-minab...
- dotancohen 8mo ago
  Thank you for the link. AlJazeera is blocked in my country, but I was able to read it. Why is the school called Shajareh Tayyebeh, Arabic for Good Tree? Don't the Iranians speak Persian? Why an Arabic name?

ta20240528 8mo ago

I can't guess what the USA wants other than a distraction from the raping-of- children saga, but I bet Israel would settle for "we acknowledge your right to exist and won't fund or encourage organisations that plan to harm you." If Saudi Arabia can get there…

kasey_junk 8mo ago
The world has seen what Israel does when they’re attacked. They don’t get to set moral frameworks anymore.
- ta20240528 8mo ago
  Agreed. But that wasn't the OP's question.
- dotancohen 8mo ago
  Who in your opinion sets the moral framework for defending oneself against an enemy which has sworn genocide and proven capable of destroying entire peaceful villages along their borders?
  - arbitrary_name 8mo ago
    you're describing Israel here, right?
    - dotancohen 8mo ago
      Which village in Gaza do you consider to have been peaceful?
  - ta20240528 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - dotancohen 8mo ago
      The IDF did not starve civilians - that lie has already been disproven. I know that you'd love to repeat it until history records it, but by no objective measure was there famine nor starvation in Gaza. Other than the starvation of Hamas' hostages. The images of "starving children" were images of children with other medical conditions. The UN reports used a metric that considered starvation at HALF the threshold used in every other conflict zone, and even with that metric only found "evidence" in a single location once.
      - ta20240528 8mo ago
        … but they did bomb apartment buildings in Tehran. I saw that with my own eyes. Stick to the challenge: what won't you accept? Nothing?
        dotancohen 8mo ago
        I accept the bombing of buildings which house those who have declared "Death to America, Death to Israel", and then have proceeded to bomb apartment buildings in Beit Shemesh.
        ta20240528 8mo ago
        That's a war crime.
        dotancohen 8mo ago
        No, that's just war.
        ta20240528 8mo ago
        From The United States Uniform Code of Military Justice: "Attacking civilians is unequivocally a war crime". https://ucmj.us/is-attacking-civilians-a-war-crime/ https://ucmj.us/is-attacking-civilians-a-war-crime/ @dang: you've banned members from this forum before for messy threads merely discussing apartheid. Surely advocating for war crimes — that the US itself considers crimes — is beyond the pale?
  - JasonADrury 8mo ago
    There are no peaceful villages in Israel, they exist only due to recent violence.
    - dotancohen 8mo ago
      You do not consider Kibbutz Beeri to have been a peaceful village bordering Gaza? Or you are just unfamiliar with the area? I challenge you to research Kibbutz Beeri and find a non-peaceful description of the village.
      - JasonADrury 7mo ago
        It's really hard to describe "11 points in the Negev" as peaceful. Kibbutz Beeri was created for the sole purpose of justifying a hostile land grab by a bunch of well-funded European immigrants.
- 875967946536853 8mo ago
  [dead]
pydry 8mo ago
israel will never be reasonable. we can bully them or appease them but they cannot be reasoned with. appeasement is seemingly having the same effect it did when chamberlain did it.
JasonADrury 8mo ago
Why should Israel have a right to exist? And under what parameters? Within which borders? Who gets citizenship? Surely there's no moral case to be made for Israel having a right to exist in its current religious ethnostate form? People who presumably should have citizenship due to their ties to the land area are excluded because they believe in the wrong ancient delusions.
- dotancohen 8mo ago
  > Why should Israel have a right to exist? There are at least three basic answers to that question, depending upon one's worldview. 1. Israel does not have a right to exist, in fact no state has "a right to exist". 2. Israel has a right to exist because her citizens successfully defend her from those who wish her not to exist. 3. Israel has a right to exist because the UN declared it. >>> random.randrange(1,4) 3 That's the tough one, but I'll answer under that worldview for the remainder of the reply... > And under what parameters? Under the parameters established by her founders, and the UN, and those established by her neighbouring states. From the Israeli declaration of independence: "WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness" - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_(Israel) From the neighbouring states: "No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Arab_League_summit Need I remind you that seven nations attacked Israel on the day of her independence? That attack caused a million and a half people to become refugees - both Arabs in the holy land and Jews in the rest of the middle east. It also moved the lines of control from the UN partition plan lines to the 1948 cease fire lines - which far favoured the Jewish state and extended in some places to the internationally recognised borders of Mandatory Palestine. > Within which borders? Within the borders of the predecessor state, Mandatory Palestine, just like all other newly-established states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis_juris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis_juris). Had the Arabs founded an Arab state on the remaining lands of Mandatory Palestine then I would argue that Israel should be established only on the land allocated by the UN and the land lost by the Arabs in their failed war. But the Arabs never established a state there. > Who gets citizenship? The people who live within the borders of the new state, and those whom the state determines are eligible for immigration. Just like every other state. In other words, there is no reason to treat Israel any differently than any other state on the planet.

cced 8mo ago

> We attacked them During negotiations, for the second time.

dotancohen 8mo ago
Negotiations during which the Iranians continuously stalled and continued their nuclear work. The threat of attack was part of the US negotiation strategy, and the Iranians thought they would call the "bluff". They were wrong.
- LAC-Tech 8mo ago
  Gentiles have a right to defend themselves.
  - dotancohen 8mo ago
    Which is exactly why I expect the Americans to destroy the nuclear capability of the state that regularly chants "Death to America".
    - LAC-Tech 8mo ago
      Did they chant that before or after hamas beheaded 40 babies? I lose track of all the lies.
      - dotancohen 8mo ago
        [flagged]
        LAC-Tech 8mo ago
        They have been chanting "down with America" - that does not mean "murder every single person in America with their missiles (which can't reach America)" "Death to" is a mistranslation of "marg bar", a phrase that is also applied to traffic, and inflation. Do the Iranians want to kill all traffic and all... inflation? We no longer believe your lies.

atsaloli 8mo ago

The primary condition is giving up nuclear ambitions.

LAC-Tech 8mo ago
It is too late, Israel already has nuclear weapons.
- nxm 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - LAC-Tech 8mo ago
    Hasbara. Over 20 years ago the president of Iran talked about "the regime occupying jerusalem must dissappear from the pages of time". IE they want regime change in Israel - which is exactly what the Israelis want in Iran. The difference is Iran is a more responsible international actor and has not started two wars based on this pretext. So yes, I trust a nuclear armed Iran much, much more than I trust a nuclear armed Israel.
    - latentsea 8mo ago
      You'd trust a country that funds terrorist organizations with nukes? Let's not put you in charge...
      - LAC-Tech 8mo ago
        Israel funded terrorist organisations in Syria, and in Palestine itself - most famously the group Hamas. Many of the terrorist groups Iran funds operates in areas illegally occupied by the Israeli military, making them legitimate resistance fighters. And Israel itself is a terrorist state - they achieved independence via the actions of Jewish terrorist groups in Palestine like Igrun, Lehi - which included several future Israeli Prime Ministers as members. So no, I do not trust Israel with nukes - they should be disarmed immediately.

Symbiote 8mo ago

It's not quite as clear-cut as it might first seem. The school was either within or bordering a military barracks, depending which way you wish to spin it. Al-Jazeera's article has obvious bias, but plenty of pictures and diagrams: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/3/3/questions-over-minab-girls-school-strike-as-israel-us-deny-involvement https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/3/3/questions-over-minab...

dotancohen 8mo ago
Thank you for the link. AlJazeera is blocked in my country, but I was able to read it. Why is the school called Shajareh Tayyebeh, Arabic for Good Tree? Don't the Iranians speak Persian? Why an Arabic name?