4 ms·

Ignoring the fact itself, doing this in a single province and not the whole country is the really wild thing for me (as a European). I have opinions about DST b

by wink 8mo ago

Ignoring the fact itself, doing this in a single province and not the whole country is the really wild thing for me (as a European). I have opinions about DST but having it different per German state sounds much more horrible than anything we have now, no matter how complicated the rules are.

blululu 8mo ago
Less of a problem in a county that is more or less laid out East to West with massive 500 mile wide provinces. British Columbia deciding to adopt Mountain Standard Time is more or less equivalent to Portugal using Berlin time.
- wink 8mo ago
  I'm thinking more 'companies in the same country working together' - physical distance does not really matter, imho. Many countries span 1000km and unless traveling in person you don't care if it's east-west or north-south. Coordinating meetings and opening times is different.
9rx 8mo ago
Canadian provinces are structurally more like countries within the EU than states within Germany. The EU operates with more than one timezone.
- wink 7mo ago
  Yes, but my experience tells me that you'll interact (on a level where timezones matter) much more with people in your country than in others - and this has nothing to do with small states vs big provinces, I don't know enough about Canada if every big company has offices in Vancouver an Toronto (or Ottawa, Montreal) that work closely together.
  - dubcanada 7mo ago
    Sadly that is not really true in Canada. Most companies in Canada only really work with a small group of close provinces. BC/Alberta Sackatchewan/Manitoba Ontario/Quebec Quebec/New Brunswick Nova Scotia/PEI/NFLD/New Brunswick etc The big companies have offices in each, but they'll usually break them down even further into eastern, central, western regions. And they'll largely never talk to eachother.
  - 9rx 7mo ago
    Not really. That might change due to what is going on in the world, which is now seeing provinces having to become serious about expanding into new markets, but in the past sharing timezones with the USA has been much more important for the sake of industry. Again, things are now starting to change, but historically the provinces haven't even had free trade between themselves — despite having free trade agreements with the USA. That's how much they have worked together.
AceJohnny2 8mo ago
For your entertainment, look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Arizona#Daylight_saving_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Arizona#Daylight_savin... Arizona, unlike the rest of the US, does not observe Daylight Savings Time (good!). However the Navajo Nation, whose territory is largely in Arizona, does. However the Hopi Reservation, which is inside the Navajo Nation territory inside Arizona, does not. Let me rephrase that: - The USA does DST - Arizona (in the USA) does not do DST - Navajo Nation (in Arizona) does do DST - Hopi Reservation (in Navajo Nation) does not do DST
- lotsofpulp 7mo ago
  I wonder how mobile network operators (the modern authorities of time) deal with this situation.
- wink 7mo ago
  I get your point and it's certainly and interesting one. But my point was less "oh my, this is unbelievable" but more a question of how much impact it has on everyday life. Again (like in the other thread) quoting Wikipeda, I see ~10k in the Hopi Reservation and 165k in the Navajo Nation, that's not a lot of people. But of course your point with Arizona stands and I'm wondering if people do mind. Glancing at the map, the only major city just at the border is Las Vegas and I don't assume a lot of cross-border commutes there.
eigenspace 7mo ago
Well, Canada is a VERY wide country. We have 4.5 time zones across the country, and BC itself is as wide as Germany. Perhaps even more surprising for you maybe is that even within a Canadian province, its not just one time zone. There are several regions along the border between BC and Alberta that already eliminated daylight savings time years and years ago, so they were on a different time zone for half the year. E.g. the Peace River Region
- wink 7mo ago
  I know it's big (I've just not seen it myself), but also it's only 5m people in BC if I can believe Wikipedia. That's like a big city. Maybe that actually makes it less of a problem though, we simply don't know :)
  - dubcanada 7mo ago
    About 90% of BC is nothing but wildlife and trees. You can't really compare it to Germany in any capacity, it doesn't work. Canada has land with literally 0 people on it bigger then the entirely of Germany. The vastness of Canada cannot be understated. Canada is almost 10mil km2, Germany is 350k km2. Germany population is about 2x that of Canada.
  - eigenspace 7mo ago
    I think if Canada was just two or maybe even three BCs wide, we probably would have settled on just one timezone for the whole country, but the country is so wide that the sun today will set 4 hours and 6 minutes later in Halifax than it will in Vancouver, we just fundamentally do need timezones inside the country, otherwise it'd be a total mess. Once you start putting timezones inside a country, the provincial borders start to become pretty natural places to put timezones. And yes, you are correct that the small population makes it easier. Or rather, it's less about the small population, and more about the spikiness of the population. Practically Nobody lives anywhere near the border between BC and Alberta, it's a gigantic mountainous national park the size of a medium-sized European country. Almost everyone in BC lives in Vancouver, and almost everyone in Alberta lives in Calgary or Edmonton. When I lived in Edmonton, it'd usually take me about 12 hours to drive to visit my parents near Vancouver, and if I was in Calgary it'd take around 10 or 11 hours. So putting a timezone change at the halfway mark is pretty much irrelevant. The strong interconnections and vibrant border regions of European countries are the main reason so much of the EU is in one timezone. If it weren't for that, it'd probably make sense to put a timezone border between Germany and Benelux / France, but that'd be too annoying for everyone, so people just put up with a wide timezone. e.g. this map gives a good idea of where the 'natural' timezone boundaries are, and lets you compare against what people decided on based on political / economic realities.

by wink 8mo ago

blululu 8mo ago

Less of a problem in a county that is more or less laid out East to West with massive 500 mile wide provinces. British Columbia deciding to adopt Mountain Standard Time is more or less equivalent to Portugal using Berlin time.

wink 8mo ago
I'm thinking more 'companies in the same country working together' - physical distance does not really matter, imho. Many countries span 1000km and unless traveling in person you don't care if it's east-west or north-south. Coordinating meetings and opening times is different.

9rx 8mo ago

Canadian provinces are structurally more like countries within the EU than states within Germany. The EU operates with more than one timezone.

wink 7mo ago
Yes, but my experience tells me that you'll interact (on a level where timezones matter) much more with people in your country than in others - and this has nothing to do with small states vs big provinces, I don't know enough about Canada if every big company has offices in Vancouver an Toronto (or Ottawa, Montreal) that work closely together.
- dubcanada 7mo ago
  Sadly that is not really true in Canada. Most companies in Canada only really work with a small group of close provinces. BC/Alberta Sackatchewan/Manitoba Ontario/Quebec Quebec/New Brunswick Nova Scotia/PEI/NFLD/New Brunswick etc The big companies have offices in each, but they'll usually break them down even further into eastern, central, western regions. And they'll largely never talk to eachother.
- 9rx 7mo ago
  Not really. That might change due to what is going on in the world, which is now seeing provinces having to become serious about expanding into new markets, but in the past sharing timezones with the USA has been much more important for the sake of industry. Again, things are now starting to change, but historically the provinces haven't even had free trade between themselves — despite having free trade agreements with the USA. That's how much they have worked together.

AceJohnny2 8mo ago

For your entertainment, look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Arizona#Daylight_saving_time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Arizona#Daylight_savin... Arizona, unlike the rest of the US, does not observe Daylight Savings Time (good!). However the Navajo Nation, whose territory is largely in Arizona, does. However the Hopi Reservation, which is inside the Navajo Nation territory inside Arizona, does not. Let me rephrase that: - The USA does DST - Arizona (in the USA) does not do DST - Navajo Nation (in Arizona) does do DST - Hopi Reservation (in Navajo Nation) does not do DST

lotsofpulp 7mo ago
I wonder how mobile network operators (the modern authorities of time) deal with this situation.
wink 7mo ago
I get your point and it's certainly and interesting one. But my point was less "oh my, this is unbelievable" but more a question of how much impact it has on everyday life. Again (like in the other thread) quoting Wikipeda, I see ~10k in the Hopi Reservation and 165k in the Navajo Nation, that's not a lot of people. But of course your point with Arizona stands and I'm wondering if people do mind. Glancing at the map, the only major city just at the border is Las Vegas and I don't assume a lot of cross-border commutes there.

eigenspace 7mo ago

Well, Canada is a VERY wide country. We have 4.5 time zones across the country, and BC itself is as wide as Germany. Perhaps even more surprising for you maybe is that even within a Canadian province, its not just one time zone. There are several regions along the border between BC and Alberta that already eliminated daylight savings time years and years ago, so they were on a different time zone for half the year. E.g. the Peace River Region

wink 7mo ago
I know it's big (I've just not seen it myself), but also it's only 5m people in BC if I can believe Wikipedia. That's like a big city. Maybe that actually makes it less of a problem though, we simply don't know :)
- dubcanada 7mo ago
  About 90% of BC is nothing but wildlife and trees. You can't really compare it to Germany in any capacity, it doesn't work. Canada has land with literally 0 people on it bigger then the entirely of Germany. The vastness of Canada cannot be understated. Canada is almost 10mil km2, Germany is 350k km2. Germany population is about 2x that of Canada.
- eigenspace 7mo ago
  I think if Canada was just two or maybe even three BCs wide, we probably would have settled on just one timezone for the whole country, but the country is so wide that the sun today will set 4 hours and 6 minutes later in Halifax than it will in Vancouver, we just fundamentally do need timezones inside the country, otherwise it'd be a total mess. Once you start putting timezones inside a country, the provincial borders start to become pretty natural places to put timezones. And yes, you are correct that the small population makes it easier. Or rather, it's less about the small population, and more about the spikiness of the population. Practically Nobody lives anywhere near the border between BC and Alberta, it's a gigantic mountainous national park the size of a medium-sized European country. Almost everyone in BC lives in Vancouver, and almost everyone in Alberta lives in Calgary or Edmonton. When I lived in Edmonton, it'd usually take me about 12 hours to drive to visit my parents near Vancouver, and if I was in Calgary it'd take around 10 or 11 hours. So putting a timezone change at the halfway mark is pretty much irrelevant. The strong interconnections and vibrant border regions of European countries are the main reason so much of the EU is in one timezone. If it weren't for that, it'd probably make sense to put a timezone border between Germany and Benelux / France, but that'd be too annoying for everyone, so people just put up with a wide timezone. e.g. this map gives a good idea of where the 'natural' timezone boundaries are, and lets you compare against what people decided on based on political / economic realities.