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It's rather incongruous that you register intellectual property for very little - and have states enforcing your rights for free - while a piece of land pays pr
by B1FF_PSUVM 7mo ago
It's rather incongruous that you register intellectual property for very little - and have states enforcing your rights for free - while a piece of land pays property taxes.
- ivell 7mo agoIPR is a form of incentive for creators in service of betterment of the society (it also could be detrimental like Mein Kempf though). On the other hand real estate does not need such extra incentives. Need or greed is enough.
- GuestFAUniverse 7mo agoThe book title is "Mein K_a_mpf". It's related to the latin "c_a_mpus" / battle field -- like most European languages, there are close relationships to the neighbors. While there were shifts in sounds: in this case not.
- simonh 7mo agoCreators pay tax on their income. We all get legal protections for our property.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- boomlinde 7mo agoReal property owners also pay tax on their income. Income is taxed. Real property is taxed. Intellectual property is not.
- brookst 7mo agoIP is next to impossible to appraise, unlike land. It’s pretty easy to ballpark what a lot of house or office building is worth based on comparables that sold recently. IP doesn’t sell that much and comparisons are harder.
- closewith 7mo agoThis is actually a solved problem. It is self-assessed valuation with compulsory sale at declared value, known as the Harberger Tax.
- ralferoo 7mo agoThis is only a solution if you think it's fair to have a regular ownership tax on top of the tax paid when purchasing / selling something.
- closewith 7mo agoIt's a solution to the problem raised by the GP - how to fairly value IP. This whole thread is about how many countries with land taxes don't similarly tax other assets like IP. Whether you think it's fair or not is another question - the blocker isn't fair valuation.
- bryanrasmussen 7mo agothe solution to how to fairly value IP was provided by the owner, capital gains tax happens on sale of IP https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47220210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47220210 capital gains does not happen on sale of land generally. These two things are obviously taxed differently because it is to the value of the government to do so, and the value of the government is supposed in many countries to somehow translate into a value for society.
- closewith 7mo agoProfits from property sales are often tax as CGT. It's only a select few jurisdictions that don't tax property sales, often with both CGTs and stamp duties. The difference in how their taxed in the US is certainly not standard globally, nor is it likely to be optimal.
- 7mo ago
- simonh 7mo agoI'm in the UK. Simply owning land does not incur taxes here, we don't have land value taxes. You pay capital gains tax on profits selling land. There are annual taxes on buildings such as council taxes on houses, specifically to pay for municipal services, but not generally on land. If I make goods I'm not taxed for owning them, only if I earn income from the sale or use of those goods.
- closewith 7mo agoThere are some analogues of a land tax in the UK. Council tax for residential property, rates for businesses, and the upcoming mansion tax.
- simonh 7mo agoAnd I think that makes sense because residences impose costs on local services. However if I write a novel aged put it on my bookshelf, or if I paint a picture ad put it on my wall, I’m not imposing a cost on anyone just because these might have some theoretical value. How would their value even be measured?
- bryanrasmussen 7mo agoReal property is taxed, but often you do not pay capital gains on sold real property (this "often" of course varies by jurisdiction, so yes in lots of places you may pay some if the conditions are right), when selling intellectual property you often (same proviso as before, only inverted) pay capital gains.
- kube-system 7mo agoReal property is sometimes taxed. Certain uses/users are partially exempt from taxation, and some uses/users are entirely exempt. It is not legal to rob these properties, nor should it be.
- dghlsakjg 7mo agoTaxing copyright ownership is effectively impossible. Unless you want to figure out how to receive a tax bill for the comment you have written. Just about any written or artistic artifact you create is subject to copyright protection. How do you begin to decide how a tweet should be taxed
- stevekemp 7mo ago> while a piece of land pays property taxes. In some countries taxes are annual. In the UK you pay taxes when you buy/sell property, or land. You don't need to pay land/property taxes every year.
- lanceflt 7mo agoCouncil taxes are property taxes and are monthly.
- dghf 7mo agoWell, technically they're annual, but you're allowed to pay them in arrears over 10 or 12 months.
- stevekemp 7mo agoCouncil taxes could be considered propertie taxes, I guess, though I've always thought of them as paying for rubbish collection & etc. However council taxes are paid by the residents of a property rather than the owner of a property. Granted these are often the same, but consider the case of a landlord with five properties the tenants would be paying those. In the sense that Americans talk about property taxes as an annual thing I believe that distinction makes it a slightly different thing.. (And council tax is only a thing for property, if you buy a chunk of land with no houses upon it you pay nothing.)
- mvc 7mo agoThey're not exactly proportional to the value of the property though are they? There's folks in London with multi-million pound mansions who pay the same or less in council tax than a family home in the suburbs.
- piaste 7mo agoThe enforcement isn't the issue, it's the scarcity.
- tacticalturtle 7mo agoThe state isn’t enforcing your rights for free - you still have to hire a lawyer and pay legal expenses yourself. The state is just providing the infrastructure where you are allowed to make a claim, if you choose to do so. This is like complaining that businesses get to use roads for free - ignoring that we all pay taxes already and built this infrastructure for enabling exactly that purpose.
- cestith 7mo agoCopyright infringement in the United States has both civil and criminal elements at law.
- tacticalturtle 7mo agoTouché. This will arouse the ire of the “copyright infringement isn’t theft” people - but we also have the government enforce shoplifting and larceny from retail businesses. I believe the legal cost to recoup the loss of either IP revenue or physical property will be born by the victim though.
- cestith 7mo agoSometimes for physical property the police take it and the owner can get it back from them. That much is sometimes free. My motorcycle got returned, but if I wanted compensation for the substantial damage done to it I would have had to get it from the thief. Often the property is never found and returned.
- kstrauser 7mo agoRetail businesses pay property taxes to support that. I fully support copyright enforcement being funded by intellectual property taxes: * You declare your property’s worth. * You pay IP taxes on that worth. * You cannot sure for recovery of more than that worth, total. If you have a song worth $1M, and sue 2 people for $500K, then consider it sold. If someone steals a car from you, you can’t collect its full worth each from multiple thieves. And if you have a $1B film, you can’t sue for $1B if you’re only paying taxes on $1M. Why are your and my taxes subsidizing theft from the public domain? Let them pay for it, just like our property taxes pay for roads and schools and fire departments and police.
- SolarNet 7mo agoLand is scarce. Also, generally, property taxes are paid to the city/county that makes that land desirable to live in.
- kube-system 7mo ago> It's rather incongruous that you register intellectual property for very little It's even more incongruous that you'd have to "register" for your rights. Intellectual property are recognized as an inherent right that doesn't require any registration at all, under the 1886 Berne Convention. Although the US was not a signatory until 1989.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- dghlsakjg 7mo agoIn the US, you do not need to register your copyright. It is entirely optional, and you can still enforce an unregistered copyright.
- kube-system 7mo agoRight, that's one of the terms of the Berne Convention that I am referencing.
- freejazz 7mo agoHow often do you see the US enforcing copyrights?
- Breza 7mo agoThe government enforces your claim and you pay taxes on anything you earn from it. I bet most IP generates a whole lot more money for the government than enforcing the copyright costs.