4 ms·

> Here is something that gets lost in all the excitement about AI productivity: most software engineers became engineers because they love writing code. > Not

by nunez 8mo ago

> Here is something that gets lost in all the excitement about AI productivity: most software engineers became engineers because they love writing code. > Not managing code. Not reviewing code. Not supervising systems that produce code. Writing it. The act of thinking through a problem, designing a solution, and expressing it precisely in a language that makes a machine do exactly what you intended. That is what drew most of us to this profession. It is a creative act, a form of craftsmanship, and for many engineers, the most satisfying part of their day. > Now they are being told to stop. Yeah, so what I've been realizing from witnessing the Rise of the Agents™ is that there are tons of developers that actually don't like writing code and were in it for the money all along. Nothing wrong with money --- I love the green stuff myself --- but it definitely sucks to have their ambivalence (at best) or disdain (at worst) for the craft imposed on the rest of us. Feel free to replace `writing code` for most work functions that are enjoyable for some that are being steamrolled by Big AI atm (writing, graphic design, marketing copy, etc.).

seanmcdirmid 8mo ago
Or maybe people who liked writing code also like writing prompts to write code? And yes, there are also traditionalists who think the old ways are the best ways.
- nunez 8mo ago
  It's not about "best" or "traditional," though your bias is clearly set. "Write me a feature that does _x_" isn't satisfying for me, and, like the author said in the post, it sucks that people that think otherwise are telling me that my way is the "old way", as you put it. (It's doubly-ironic for me, as I actually like writing documentation!)
  - seanmcdirmid 8mo ago
    > "Write me a feature that does _x_" isn't satisfying for me, and, like the author said in the post, it sucks that people that think otherwise are telling me that my way is the "old way", as you put it. Ya, no. It’s not that easy. Programming with prompts is much more intellectually challenging, maybe it will be like that in 5-10 years? Right now we are in a productivity increase that is more similar to interactive terminals over using punch cards. I wonder if the traditionalists simply don’t understand the tech, they seem to have made some whacky unfounded assumptions about it.
    - nunez 8mo ago
      I'm assuming you're bucketing me in with the "traditionalists," which is fine. I didn't say "intellectually challenging." I said "satisfying." Neither matters in the context of enterprise software development, which only cares about "fast" and "safe", but alas. Regardless, I understand the tech fairly well and have used it, and, no, I haven't found it intellectually challenging _in a way that is satisfying._ In my experience, coding with Claude is basically asking someone else to author what I want and asking it for fixes/changes/etc, kind of like how /u/simonw published here when converting memchr to Python from Rust: https://archive.ph/AqyUq https://archive.ph/AqyUq (original Gist here: https://gist.github.com/simonw/1bf98596a83ff29b15a2f4790d71c41d https://gist.github.com/simonw/1bf98596a83ff29b15a2f4790d71c...). For me (and I'm not alone in feeling this way), that's like asking someone to solve a puzzle for me and guiding them through the steps. Or, more relevantly, asking ChatGPT or Apple Intelligence to type some email or blog post for me when I'm stuck on a word or way to phrase something. I suppose some find this fun. I don't. The "you should like this" narrative that is constantly being pushed onto me by people who, by and large, have always thought of software development as a means to an end and a cost-optimization exercise is tiring. This is the point that I keep making and will continue to defend, "traditionalist" or not.
      - seanmcdirmid 8mo ago
        Hmm, I find it just hacking at a different level. It is like when we moved from BASIC to C to Java. I find it definitely satisfying, figuring out how to tell someone to do something is a different skill than actually doing it, though, but it feels right to me.

by nunez 8mo ago

seanmcdirmid 8mo ago

Or maybe people who liked writing code also like writing prompts to write code? And yes, there are also traditionalists who think the old ways are the best ways.

nunez 8mo ago
It's not about "best" or "traditional," though your bias is clearly set. "Write me a feature that does _x_" isn't satisfying for me, and, like the author said in the post, it sucks that people that think otherwise are telling me that my way is the "old way", as you put it. (It's doubly-ironic for me, as I actually like writing documentation!)
- seanmcdirmid 8mo ago
  > "Write me a feature that does _x_" isn't satisfying for me, and, like the author said in the post, it sucks that people that think otherwise are telling me that my way is the "old way", as you put it. Ya, no. It’s not that easy. Programming with prompts is much more intellectually challenging, maybe it will be like that in 5-10 years? Right now we are in a productivity increase that is more similar to interactive terminals over using punch cards. I wonder if the traditionalists simply don’t understand the tech, they seem to have made some whacky unfounded assumptions about it.
  - nunez 8mo ago
    I'm assuming you're bucketing me in with the "traditionalists," which is fine. I didn't say "intellectually challenging." I said "satisfying." Neither matters in the context of enterprise software development, which only cares about "fast" and "safe", but alas. Regardless, I understand the tech fairly well and have used it, and, no, I haven't found it intellectually challenging _in a way that is satisfying._ In my experience, coding with Claude is basically asking someone else to author what I want and asking it for fixes/changes/etc, kind of like how /u/simonw published here when converting memchr to Python from Rust: https://archive.ph/AqyUq https://archive.ph/AqyUq (original Gist here: https://gist.github.com/simonw/1bf98596a83ff29b15a2f4790d71c41d https://gist.github.com/simonw/1bf98596a83ff29b15a2f4790d71c...). For me (and I'm not alone in feeling this way), that's like asking someone to solve a puzzle for me and guiding them through the steps. Or, more relevantly, asking ChatGPT or Apple Intelligence to type some email or blog post for me when I'm stuck on a word or way to phrase something. I suppose some find this fun. I don't. The "you should like this" narrative that is constantly being pushed onto me by people who, by and large, have always thought of software development as a means to an end and a cost-optimization exercise is tiring. This is the point that I keep making and will continue to defend, "traditionalist" or not.
    - seanmcdirmid 8mo ago
      Hmm, I find it just hacking at a different level. It is like when we moved from BASIC to C to Java. I find it definitely satisfying, figuring out how to tell someone to do something is a different skill than actually doing it, though, but it feels right to me.