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They're not going to have a normal country. The United States under Trump isn't interested in a democratic Iran. They want a dictator they can control.

pinkmuffinere 7mo ago
I think you’re right that it would be a puppet state under trump. But in three years it will be a puppet state under somebody else! And maybe that somebody would relinquish the strings.
- Thlom 7mo ago
  Haha.
SXX 7mo ago
Not disagreeing with you, but US-controlled dictators have better track record of not killing thousands of protesters or just random people in own populations. Not perfect option, but still is an improvement even from your positiom.
- amarcheschi 7mo ago
  US supported Pinochet or the US supported military dictatorship in brasil would like to disagree
  - throwaway2037 7mo ago
    Agree. See also military dictatorships in South Korea and Taiwan. Many terrible years and brutal killings by the gov't. Both gov'ts were strongly supported by the US.
    - breppp 7mo ago
      Two great examples of countries where US pressure had effectively transformed from dictatorships to democracies
      - throwaway2037 7mo ago
        Wow, I did not expect this type of reply. I reject it. In South Korea, there was incredible civil violence between protesters and police. I'm talking about stolen automatic weapons by protesters, then used against the police after decades of unchecked violence by the police against protesters. In hindsight, it looks like a low grade civil war. It was brutally hard and violent for South Korean to gain their democracy. (When you listen to South Korean boomers talk about how much their treasure and defend their new-found democracy, it will bring tears to your eyes. They really lived the violence and found democracy.) Taiwan needed the last dictator to die. Once his son took over, he quickly devised a plan to transition to an authentic democracy. (They had rigged election for years.) Still, they had 40 years of the "White Terror" where secret police kidnapped and murdered thousands of protesters. Related: Indonesia also had a very violent transition into democracy, but the old dictators didn't kill as many innocent people as Taiwan or South Korea. As I understand, the US had very little influence during the democracy transition of these three nations. Regarding Taiwan, the US provided security gurantees against mainland China, but did not interfere with the gov't. South Korea, similar security guarantee against the "Kimdom". Again, did not interfere with the gov't. Indonesia: Provided no security guarantee and did not interfere with the gov't.
        breppp 7mo ago
        I can only see the US insistence on many bad foreign decisions in the name of democracy done in the Middle East by multiple administrations, that without much knowledge of the situation in East Asia, I venture to guess it is not a coincidence that US allies turned into democracies I also am not sure about Indonesia as an example of a US ally, I don't think it is similar to the other two Effectively both SK and Taiwan were completely dependent on US for defense, I doubt this had no bearing

pinkmuffinere 7mo ago

I think you’re right that it would be a puppet state under trump. But in three years it will be a puppet state under somebody else! And maybe that somebody would relinquish the strings.

Thlom 7mo ago
Haha.

SXX 7mo ago

Not disagreeing with you, but US-controlled dictators have better track record of not killing thousands of protesters or just random people in own populations. Not perfect option, but still is an improvement even from your positiom.

amarcheschi 7mo ago
US supported Pinochet or the US supported military dictatorship in brasil would like to disagree
- throwaway2037 7mo ago
  Agree. See also military dictatorships in South Korea and Taiwan. Many terrible years and brutal killings by the gov't. Both gov'ts were strongly supported by the US.
  - breppp 7mo ago
    Two great examples of countries where US pressure had effectively transformed from dictatorships to democracies
    - throwaway2037 7mo ago
      Wow, I did not expect this type of reply. I reject it. In South Korea, there was incredible civil violence between protesters and police. I'm talking about stolen automatic weapons by protesters, then used against the police after decades of unchecked violence by the police against protesters. In hindsight, it looks like a low grade civil war. It was brutally hard and violent for South Korean to gain their democracy. (When you listen to South Korean boomers talk about how much their treasure and defend their new-found democracy, it will bring tears to your eyes. They really lived the violence and found democracy.) Taiwan needed the last dictator to die. Once his son took over, he quickly devised a plan to transition to an authentic democracy. (They had rigged election for years.) Still, they had 40 years of the "White Terror" where secret police kidnapped and murdered thousands of protesters. Related: Indonesia also had a very violent transition into democracy, but the old dictators didn't kill as many innocent people as Taiwan or South Korea. As I understand, the US had very little influence during the democracy transition of these three nations. Regarding Taiwan, the US provided security gurantees against mainland China, but did not interfere with the gov't. South Korea, similar security guarantee against the "Kimdom". Again, did not interfere with the gov't. Indonesia: Provided no security guarantee and did not interfere with the gov't.
      - breppp 7mo ago
        I can only see the US insistence on many bad foreign decisions in the name of democracy done in the Middle East by multiple administrations, that without much knowledge of the situation in East Asia, I venture to guess it is not a coincidence that US allies turned into democracies I also am not sure about Indonesia as an example of a US ally, I don't think it is similar to the other two Effectively both SK and Taiwan were completely dependent on US for defense, I doubt this had no bearing