6 ms·

> they pass laws to regulate things they have zero clue about While you are correct with this statement in this context, I would say it applies to most things

> they pass laws to regulate things they have zero clue about While you are correct with this statement in this context, I would say it applies to most things in government in general. The vast majority of lawmakers have zero experience solving any real world problems and are content spending everyone else's money to play pretend at doing so. The reality is, most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve, after which, they blame their predecessors for all the problems they caused and the cycle continues.

Hammershaft 8mo ago
It's true, and yet there are real market failures that even a very ineffective government can improve on dramatically, like innovation & research output via basic science.
alistairSH 8mo ago
most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve Zero basis in fact. We’re in the wealthiest nation on the planet. Most of us live better than any previous generation. To claim all that success is completely in spite of government is ridiculous.
- SunshineTheCat 8mo ago
  Are you under the impression that the government created all that wealth?
  - heavyset_go 8mo ago
    The government literally enforces capitalism with guns and bombs lol
  - alistairSH 8mo ago
    Not at all. But it enabled it. Or at worst didn’t prevent it.
  - Yossarrian22 8mo ago
    Without nukes to keep away the Soviets I wouldn’t be wealthy
    - nozzlegear 8mo ago
      This but unironically
      - Yossarrian22 8mo ago
        To be clear I meant this literally, I'm not sure how I could have made that more clear.
        nozzlegear 8mo ago
        Ah, my bad. It read like the kind of comment that's usually steeped in sarcasm.
  - elfly 8mo ago
    Have you ever looked at a dollar bill in your life. Who do you think printed it. Who signed the bill? The US can just print money and receive goods in exchange of literal paper. Or just put an extra zero in a bank account and receive goods in exchange. And if a certain yahoo decides they want in the money printing scheme...who do you think is going to send the goons with guns to prevent the government monopoly in creating literal wealth.
- rurban 8mo ago
  Wealthiest nation? More like unwealthiest of all nations. U. S. by far the largest current-account deficit (over $1.2 trillion). U.S. has the largest goods trade deficit (over $1 trillion).
ericb 8mo ago
I see Massachusetts as sort of the non-insane liberal counterpoint to California. Things work here and nobody seems to be passing the "oops my unintended side effects and clueless regulations messed things up horribly." Or, if they do, it is at something like 1/10th the level. We didn't start warning label spam everywhere. We don't have weird propositions that are causing run-away housing prices. There aren't bar codes on our 3d printers, or cookie banner requirements on every website. Well, ok we do, but that nonsense all came in from other places. We did pass laws to lower PFAS/PFOAS. That seems reasonable. Government can work.
- wredcoll 8mo ago
  > We don't have weird propositions that causing run-away housing prices. Most of those are a reaction rather than the cause. People want to move to california, it creates a different set of problems for california vs Massachusetts
- dlev_pika 8mo ago
  I like MA, but you realize the challenges are vastly different, right? The sheer size, economic volume and cultural diversity of CA presents a pretty unique set of issues.
  - ericb 8mo ago
    I mean, sure, but all those things I named don't seem to be scale induced? They seem to all stem from clueless regulation, which is as simple as not not signing silly laws? I'm missing where scale plays into the items I mentioned.
- cucumber3732842 8mo ago
  MA legislature is too busy enriching themselves with back room dealing to f the state up too much. I wish I was joking. They get audited yet? Pretty sure that was a ballot measure that passed by a huge margin years back and last I checked they were stalling...
wredcoll 8mo ago
> The reality is, most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve The "reality" is that propaganda heavily encourages you to ignore the government successes and only focus on the failures. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine who benefits from that.
- SunshineTheCat 8mo ago
  > "government successes" Please, name for me one product or service that the US government has created, that people willingly buy, that has made your life tangibly better. I can list a billion made by businesses. Please, go for it. Just one.
  - mbgerring 8mo ago
    USPS Medicaid The National Park System I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but
    - palmotea 8mo ago
      > I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but Oh, there's more: Medicare, Social Security, the highway system. The whole food/medicine regulatory system is also a big one, and it's the reason a lot of US (and European) products like baby formula are imported into China, because they can be more trusted. My bet is the GP's going to weasel out using his "that people willingly buy" language. The flawed assumption there is the government should be conceptualized as just another company selling in the market, when the government's actual role is very different.
      - SunshineTheCat 8mo ago
        As with anything, they are all things that could be done better by a company. Airlines are a great example of this. They have changed very little in the last 30 years (again, thanks to all the government regulation and red tape). Smartphones, TVs, (and literally anything else not in the hands of the government) has also seen rapid improvements. Anything the government handles is always rife with overspending, inefficiency, and corruption. A company must maintain profitability to stay alive. The government on the other hand, is $38 TRILLION dollars in the red. Yes, the things that "people willingly buy" are the literal engine that makes all of this possible. It is not the reverse.

Hammershaft 8mo ago

It's true, and yet there are real market failures that even a very ineffective government can improve on dramatically, like innovation & research output via basic science.

alistairSH 8mo ago

most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve Zero basis in fact. We’re in the wealthiest nation on the planet. Most of us live better than any previous generation. To claim all that success is completely in spite of government is ridiculous.

SunshineTheCat 8mo ago
Are you under the impression that the government created all that wealth?
- heavyset_go 8mo ago
  The government literally enforces capitalism with guns and bombs lol
- alistairSH 8mo ago
  Not at all. But it enabled it. Or at worst didn’t prevent it.
- Yossarrian22 8mo ago
  Without nukes to keep away the Soviets I wouldn’t be wealthy
  - nozzlegear 8mo ago
    This but unironically
    - Yossarrian22 8mo ago
      To be clear I meant this literally, I'm not sure how I could have made that more clear.
      - nozzlegear 8mo ago
        Ah, my bad. It read like the kind of comment that's usually steeped in sarcasm.
- elfly 8mo ago
  Have you ever looked at a dollar bill in your life. Who do you think printed it. Who signed the bill? The US can just print money and receive goods in exchange of literal paper. Or just put an extra zero in a bank account and receive goods in exchange. And if a certain yahoo decides they want in the money printing scheme...who do you think is going to send the goons with guns to prevent the government monopoly in creating literal wealth.
rurban 8mo ago
Wealthiest nation? More like unwealthiest of all nations. U. S. by far the largest current-account deficit (over $1.2 trillion). U.S. has the largest goods trade deficit (over $1 trillion).

ericb 8mo ago

I see Massachusetts as sort of the non-insane liberal counterpoint to California. Things work here and nobody seems to be passing the "oops my unintended side effects and clueless regulations messed things up horribly." Or, if they do, it is at something like 1/10th the level. We didn't start warning label spam everywhere. We don't have weird propositions that are causing run-away housing prices. There aren't bar codes on our 3d printers, or cookie banner requirements on every website. Well, ok we do, but that nonsense all came in from other places. We did pass laws to lower PFAS/PFOAS. That seems reasonable. Government can work.

wredcoll 8mo ago
> We don't have weird propositions that causing run-away housing prices. Most of those are a reaction rather than the cause. People want to move to california, it creates a different set of problems for california vs Massachusetts
dlev_pika 8mo ago
I like MA, but you realize the challenges are vastly different, right? The sheer size, economic volume and cultural diversity of CA presents a pretty unique set of issues.
- ericb 8mo ago
  I mean, sure, but all those things I named don't seem to be scale induced? They seem to all stem from clueless regulation, which is as simple as not not signing silly laws? I'm missing where scale plays into the items I mentioned.
cucumber3732842 8mo ago
MA legislature is too busy enriching themselves with back room dealing to f the state up too much. I wish I was joking. They get audited yet? Pretty sure that was a ballot measure that passed by a huge margin years back and last I checked they were stalling...

wredcoll 8mo ago

> The reality is, most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve The "reality" is that propaganda heavily encourages you to ignore the government successes and only focus on the failures. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine who benefits from that.

SunshineTheCat 8mo ago
> "government successes" Please, name for me one product or service that the US government has created, that people willingly buy, that has made your life tangibly better. I can list a billion made by businesses. Please, go for it. Just one.
- mbgerring 8mo ago
  USPS Medicaid The National Park System I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but
  - palmotea 8mo ago
    > I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but Oh, there's more: Medicare, Social Security, the highway system. The whole food/medicine regulatory system is also a big one, and it's the reason a lot of US (and European) products like baby formula are imported into China, because they can be more trusted. My bet is the GP's going to weasel out using his "that people willingly buy" language. The flawed assumption there is the government should be conceptualized as just another company selling in the market, when the government's actual role is very different.
    - SunshineTheCat 8mo ago
      As with anything, they are all things that could be done better by a company. Airlines are a great example of this. They have changed very little in the last 30 years (again, thanks to all the government regulation and red tape). Smartphones, TVs, (and literally anything else not in the hands of the government) has also seen rapid improvements. Anything the government handles is always rife with overspending, inefficiency, and corruption. A company must maintain profitability to stay alive. The government on the other hand, is $38 TRILLION dollars in the red. Yes, the things that "people willingly buy" are the literal engine that makes all of this possible. It is not the reverse.