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> The Hyperion Cantos is a masterpiece which every scifi fan ought to have read You have to have some affinity to religious/Christianity/church topics, otherwi
by layer8 8mo ago
> The Hyperion Cantos is a masterpiece which every scifi fan ought to have read
You have to have some affinity to religious/Christianity/church topics, otherwise it’s quite a turn-off.
- iamtheworstdev 8mo ago:shrug: I'm an Atheist, I loved the series.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- mbeex 8mo agoAtheist here: Not true, there is much more in Hyperion (and even Endymion)
- layer8 8mo agoI’m not saying that you have to be religious. But if you find those topics and related symbolisms rather uninteresting in your sci-fi, then the books may not be for you.
- Freak_NL 8mo agoI mean, it's not my fandom, but Catholics do have a wicked sense of symbolism and decoration. Hyperion wouldn't be as colourful if Simmons used a bunch of Evangelicals instead.
- SmirkingRevenge 8mo agoThere really is a huge stockpile of stuff there to build into fiction. There's a whole crazy universe of occult-like lore within Catholicism that a subculture of Catholics really get into, it's pretty wild, often quite macabre. I have a couple of those types in my family. The way they talk about praying to specific saints is like they're paladins in an RPG using divine magic. Then there's the whole thing where the church has bones of long dead saints encased in ornate reliquaries that supposedly dispense miracles.
- throw0101a 8mo ago> I mean, it's not my fandom, but Catholics do have a wicked sense of symbolism and decoration. Catholics (and other denominations too) consider the three transcendentals to be Truth, Goodness, and Beauty, which are all natures of God†: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentals This philosophical/theological thinking goes back to (at least) the Middle Ages: * https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/transcendentals-medieval/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/transcendentals-medieval/ So the fact that "decoration" would be present is unsurprisingly, as Beauty in this reality can help to lead to greater reality of Truth and Goodness as well. It's why there have long been traditions with art, music, architecture, etc, in Catholic culture. † God is Truth, God is Goodness (itself), and God is Beauty. (God is Love as well.)
- indubioprorubik 8mo agoWell, i detest jihadism, but still could enjoy dune
- Brian_K_White 8mo agoPeople are interesting, and religion is a thing people do. In this case there is quasi-religious imagery but you as the reader aren't actually supposed to be mystical about the god/devil in the story the way the characters themselves are. It's not C. S. Lewis Do you also find LeGuin uninteresting?
- ceejayoz 8mo agoI have zero affinity for those and found it a fascinating read.
- Supermancho 8mo agoIt's interesting how different stories have different underlying religious underpinnings in different parts of the world. It's important to consider that these themes are precisely because the stories are born from the surrounding culture. Christian references in the Cantos were probably incidental, given the expected familiarity of the intended audience (american white male young men). eg The Matrix trilogy started with the obvious messianic hero's journey, then attempted to expand it in the following films (karma, cycles of death and rebirth, etc). For some, these religious messages can be a turn off, I agree. I happened to be raised in a culture that allowed me to ignore it more or less and I can recognize that.
- sgillen 8mo agoNot sure if I agree with the christian references being incidental ... the first book is literally a retelling of the The Canterbury Tales, all the characters are on a pilgrimage. there are a bunch of religious groups with at least one being central to the story, there are cross shaped parasites that grant eternal life. I still think you can enjoy it without caring much about religion.
- AlanYx 8mo ago>there are cross shaped parasites that grant eternal life Without giving away any spoilers to the books, the parasites are only that on the surface. If anything, the books present a wary picture of religion, especially the last two Endymion books, but also a wary picture of technology.
- Supermancho 8mo ago> the first book is literally a retelling of the The Canterbury Tales, all the characters are on a pilgrimage. As we have both read the books, it's notable that you associate pilgrimage with Christianity. This illustrates the point.
- Barrin92 8mo ago>Christian references in the Cantos were probably incidental, They're not at all incidental. The themes and the literal Catholic Church don't just make it into the books by osmosis, they're central to it and deliberate. Like Gene Wolfe he's part of a pretty small group of US authors who wrote Catholic speculative fiction. Like Wolfe his writing is also fairly un-American. If Heinlein or Asimov are examples of archetypal US science fiction, Simmons is about as far as the other end as you can be, with the post-modern structure, the Canterbury Tales as a template for the story and so on.
- castral 8mo agoTo be fair, the first novel Hyperion is quite literally a survey of major world religions, not just Christianity. It does settle onto Christian symbolism in the second book onward, but the first two novels alone are still worth reading for their ideas. No affinity required, it's just the default Western canon at work.
- layer8 8mo ago> just the default Western canon It’s particular topics of that canon, and you have to fancy their treatment in a science-fiction setting. Some people like science-fiction because/when it proposes fresh perspectives that aren’t rooted in, by lack of a better description, non-enlightenment parts of that canon.
- indubioprorubik 8mo agoThe clean slate of banks - where we discarded culture to embrace the "culture" and look where this "winging" it got us. Turns out the operating system of a society is important- and the atheist distilled synthetic one is not really working - same goes for alot of others. The utopist urge for cultural tabula rasa is a retardation, a attempt of the brain to shirk embracing and discovering complexity. One has to look at the "backwards" parts to start to understand what works in a society and with the actual human beeings lifing in a actual society, not the wingless Star Trek Angels in PJs. Embrace complexity, embrace analysis, build something without defining the endstate first. Make small things that work, combine them into bigger things that work. Way less calling for cullings of the "sabotaging traitors" as they are usual with utopists on the march.
- Trasmatta 8mo agoI disagree strongly. I'm not religious at all, and have a strong aversion to Christianity, and I loved those books.
- kakacik 8mo agoAtheist/agnostic here, completely untrue statement
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- bayindirh 8mo agoThe religious themes are a thin veil in Hyperion, looking behind them opens another dimension to ponder about. I’m not a Christian, BTW.
- samus 8mo agoIt's up to anybody to not have a particular taste for religious topics, however, spirituality (or the lack thereof) is an important part of human culture and psychology. Therefore a science fiction novel in a sufficiently different setting from Earth's early 21st century really ought to cover these topics as well, lest the worldbuilding would be very shallow and the resulting work would likely lack depth.
- loloquwowndueo 8mo agoEntirely untrue.
- Brian_K_White 8mo agoAtheist. Loved it.
- stickfigure 8mo agoI don't want to dogpile on the other comments (atheist, loved the book) but I think there's something interesting here. Most science fiction tends to assume that religiosity will fade as humanity matures, and in a few thousand years we'll all have a good laugh at those silly ancient humans. This feels generally right to me. But it's not the only possible future, and Hyperion explores a far future in which religiosity becomes more ingrained. I thought it was one of the more interesting aspects of the book, and contributed to the feeling of "not just another space opera". You don't have to appreciate religion to like the story.
- davkan 8mo agoDid you like Dune?
- kjs3 8mo agoYou hate mythological subjects in mythological stories. Or, rather, you selectively detest them. Whatever you need to feel superior, I guess.
- LakesAndTrees 8mo agoI don’t, and this stands as one of the best reading experiences of my life.