3 ms·

The meta strategy seems clear: if the world seems full of grifters, stop being a Mark, and start being a Skeptic. Or, I suppose, go on thinking this time is di

by MarkusQ 8mo ago

The meta strategy seems clear: if the world seems full of grifters, stop being a Mark, and start being a Skeptic. Or, I suppose, go on thinking this time is different.

energy123 8mo ago
Don't believe the latest fashion on social media, including the latest thing it's fashionable to be sceptical about. That rule of thumb performed well the last 10 years.
- allthetime 8mo ago
  The simple version: get off social media. The dilemma for me is that aspects of social media (namely information sharing and learning) are incredibly useful, while others (contrarian argumentation, propaganda, attention black holes) are very harmful. I go through cycles of abstaining from online interaction because I’ve sunk into the dark side too much but then return with a stronger intention in order to feed my hobbies and mind. I’ve found that it’s not so simple to just “not believe” what you see and read as being constantly bombarded with political messaging necessarily pushes you to one side or the other unconsciously. So yeah, for me the best way is to cut that feed off entirely, instead of pretending I have any kind of effective fire wall against its deeper mental effects.
  - energy123 8mo ago
    I'd like a product/UI that uses an LLM to filter social media to get rid of "contrarian argumentation, propaganda, attention black holes". Basically a sovereign recommendation engine.
    - MarkusQ 8mo ago
      The easiest way to do that is to block the social media sites at your firewall. You may have a few false positive (maybe 1% or so?) but that should be minor compared to the time savings.
- MarkusQ 8mo ago
  > Don't believe the latest fashion on social media, including the latest thing it's fashionable to be sceptical about. I don't think choosing to believe in something just because other people are piling on being skeptical of it is a viable strategy. If you hear a lot of people pointing out "X is a scam" you shouldn't refuse to believe them on principle.
  - energy123 8mo ago
    Agreed, the refined view would be to treat it as noise, or at most a reason to explore further.
kruffalon 8mo ago
I don't think that's a viable strategy. If you're a Mark (=trusting person) I don't think you can just decide to become a Skeptic. I admit I skimmed the article and even if I would read more closely I don't think I would understand it better. I'll use my intuition for how individuals transition between the roles. Mark -> Skeptic: requires to be have been grifted and possibly having the grift explained by a Skeptic. Or possibly having someone close to you get grifted. Mark -> Grifter: I'm not sure it's possible, but maybe the corruption pdf posted[0] is a clue. Skeptic -> Grifter: desillusion about the point of not grifting since everyone else is doing it too. So maybe late stage corruption[0] or just nihilism based on seeing grifts succeed so much. Skeptic -> Mark: honestly... Shrooms maybe? Or finding and being chosen into a trusting community. Grifter -> Skeptic: I think realising that you've hurt someone in an unexpectedly harsh way could help this transition. Otherwise I don't really know besides being short of Marks. --- [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47177186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47177186
- MarkusQ 8mo ago
  Every skeptic was once a trusting babe-in-arms, as was every grifter. People have more agency, more ability to choose their fate than you're giving them credit for here.

by MarkusQ 8mo ago

The meta strategy seems clear: if the world seems full of grifters, stop being a Mark, and start being a Skeptic. Or, I suppose, go on thinking this time is different.

energy123 8mo ago

Don't believe the latest fashion on social media, including the latest thing it's fashionable to be sceptical about. That rule of thumb performed well the last 10 years.

allthetime 8mo ago
The simple version: get off social media. The dilemma for me is that aspects of social media (namely information sharing and learning) are incredibly useful, while others (contrarian argumentation, propaganda, attention black holes) are very harmful. I go through cycles of abstaining from online interaction because I’ve sunk into the dark side too much but then return with a stronger intention in order to feed my hobbies and mind. I’ve found that it’s not so simple to just “not believe” what you see and read as being constantly bombarded with political messaging necessarily pushes you to one side or the other unconsciously. So yeah, for me the best way is to cut that feed off entirely, instead of pretending I have any kind of effective fire wall against its deeper mental effects.
- energy123 8mo ago
  I'd like a product/UI that uses an LLM to filter social media to get rid of "contrarian argumentation, propaganda, attention black holes". Basically a sovereign recommendation engine.
  - MarkusQ 8mo ago
    The easiest way to do that is to block the social media sites at your firewall. You may have a few false positive (maybe 1% or so?) but that should be minor compared to the time savings.
MarkusQ 8mo ago
> Don't believe the latest fashion on social media, including the latest thing it's fashionable to be sceptical about. I don't think choosing to believe in something just because other people are piling on being skeptical of it is a viable strategy. If you hear a lot of people pointing out "X is a scam" you shouldn't refuse to believe them on principle.
- energy123 8mo ago
  Agreed, the refined view would be to treat it as noise, or at most a reason to explore further.

kruffalon 8mo ago

I don't think that's a viable strategy. If you're a Mark (=trusting person) I don't think you can just decide to become a Skeptic. I admit I skimmed the article and even if I would read more closely I don't think I would understand it better. I'll use my intuition for how individuals transition between the roles. Mark -> Skeptic: requires to be have been grifted and possibly having the grift explained by a Skeptic. Or possibly having someone close to you get grifted. Mark -> Grifter: I'm not sure it's possible, but maybe the corruption pdf posted[0] is a clue. Skeptic -> Grifter: desillusion about the point of not grifting since everyone else is doing it too. So maybe late stage corruption[0] or just nihilism based on seeing grifts succeed so much. Skeptic -> Mark: honestly... Shrooms maybe? Or finding and being chosen into a trusting community. Grifter -> Skeptic: I think realising that you've hurt someone in an unexpectedly harsh way could help this transition. Otherwise I don't really know besides being short of Marks. --- [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47177186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47177186

MarkusQ 8mo ago
Every skeptic was once a trusting babe-in-arms, as was every grifter. People have more agency, more ability to choose their fate than you're giving them credit for here.