8 ms·

I was in Shanghai recently and while casually testing one of their AI chat bots I typed "What do you think of the situation in Taiwan?". It started discussing

I was in Shanghai recently and while casually testing one of their AI chat bots I typed "What do you think of the situation in Taiwan?". It started discussing like a Western bot would - "it's complicated, etc. etc." and around 5s it abruptly stopped and regurgitated the same line the CCP uses "... it's an unalienable part of China etc. etc.". After printing the line, a popup opened and my camera was activated. The app wanted me to submit my information, presumably to decide what to do with me next time I enter China. 1) All the lights and modern buildings cannot hide that China is a creepy authoritarian state underneath. 2) Given the bot started printing the Western consensus first, I bet $10 it was trained by distilling ChatGPT or Gemini.

raven12345 8mo ago
Can you tell what AI chat bots are you using? as i know all chat in China just block answer, no apps will activate camera and ask for information
titaniumtown 8mo ago
> After printing the line, a popup opened and my camera was activated. The app wanted me to submit my information, presumably to decide what to do with me next time I enter China. Was this on your personal device? I'm just wondering how it activated your camera. I would love more details!
- 9999px 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - kelseyfrog 8mo ago
    [flagged]
  - parl_match 8mo ago
    An increasing use of AI is to gather user feedback. The Chatbot UI detected an error state, and then loaded a feedback vendor, who then popped the camera open for their interactive feedback session I've run into this a few times, now. So what OP is saying is plausible, I just don't appreciate their added and probably incorrect conclusion that it's because the government of China wants to do something to them
    - fasbiner 8mo ago
      What are you talking about? Why are you using imprecise language like "popped the camera open?" You've run into a site you view on chrome/firefox/safari accessing your camera without granting access a few times now? Can you give us an example of a site that does this so we can reproduce? Or could you retract your statement and clarify that you did grant camera permissions for that site previously? Otherwise, you're saying very casually there's a huge bug and security issue that no one else has detected but you personally have seem multiple times. I've run into people on the internet misremembering things or not understanding how the browser works more times than I've run into browsers allowing access to system devices like the camera without a permission prompt.
      - parl_match 8mo ago
        > Or could you retract your statement and clarify that you did grant camera permissions for that site previously? I never said anything about granting permissions. I can respond to your other points, in turn, but first I would like you to confirm that I am who you think you are responding to :) I am not OP. In case you don't think I'm OP, then, well I was being imprecise. Yes, it requires browser/app/manifest permissions. Your paranoid and aggressive tone implies you're not giving me any benefit of the doubt, as I speak informally in a casual web forum discussion about understanding what happened.
        fasbiner 8mo ago
        Sorry, I think of HN as a technical forum where people prize precision. I think that when you informally bolster lies of omission with your own imprecise language agreeing with it, that harms the quality of discussion and creates pointless confusion. I think you get less benefit of the doubt if you do that routinely. By your own admission you do that routinely since you use this as a place to speak informally in a casual web discussion where you are often imprecise or lie by omission.
        parl_match 8mo ago
        Actually, I didn't bolster a lie by omission. I provided context as to what their experience might be based on my own. It is entirely possible that they aren't lying. That is your assertion that you are making as if it's fact. I think it's more likely that they are unaware of what is happening. You didn't have all of the information, and you are making assumptions that are very likely incorrect. Furthermore, it is a given that user consent is asked for camera access in most situations. If this is a concept that you need explained to you in every situation, then you may need to review your knowledge or competency. Which is to say, if you need this explained, you should probably speak less and listen more :) Anyways, I think this conversation is over. Your unnecessarily aggressive and hostile tone is unwarranted and I no longer wish to talk with you. Feel free to have the last word if you wish. .
- anvuong 8mo ago
  Yeah that part is either just bullshit or OP gave the bot access to his camera previously, which is just dumb.
  - sixseven 8mo ago
    The story smells like bullshit to me.
  - crossroadsguy 8mo ago
    OP might have meant that it asked for camera permission. Or OP might have set camera permission to auto allow but then that is also stupid (more so).
  - Justitia 8mo ago
    I would not be surprised if they just activated the camera
3rodents 8mo ago
If this were true, why didn’t the chatbot immediately recognize that the word “Taiwan” should trigger the response? Detecting the word “Taiwan” has been possible since before most of us were born. China has more restrictions on what you can say than the U.S. but what you are describing is not reality. Some westerner asking Deepseek about Taiwan is completely uninteresting. Just as the government do not chase people over VPN usage. China doesn’t try to hide that they are an authoritarian state. They don’t need to. Most people in China are no less happy with their government than westerners are with their governments. Governments reflect culture. And as for foreigners, our view of China is far worse than it actually is, China doesn’t need to hide anything, people who visit China will come away with a more positive view of the country than those who do not visit.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- CWuestefeld 8mo ago
  This is manifestly false. My wife grew up in Shanghai, and you'll have to go quite some distance to find someone more critical of the PRC and CCP than she is. And it's with good reason. She grew up during the cultural revolution, and was largely raised by her grandmother because literally every other person in her extended family was in prison or work camp, not because of anything they had actually done wrong, but for political reasons because the whole family was blacklisted. And that's not just the old days. Her father died as a direct result of Chinese Covid policy. During the pandemic her cousins still in the country would ask her (on Skype) "is X true?", and largely their perception of what was going on was false. She would exfiltrate encrypted news reports to them - until those started getting blocked. Her dad's estate still has affairs that need to be resolved, but we've decided not to return to China until Xi is gone, as it's just not safe. It doesn't get much airplay, but there are currently a couple of hundred Americans who are being illegally detained in China right now. It's not worth the risk. My first trip to China was about 30 years ago, shortly after we got married. And back then, I would have said that you were right. Honestly, it felt like for the average person in their day-to-day-lives, the Chinese were less under the governmental thumb than we are. People from the countryside would bring their produce into the city to sell, or cook dumplings and buns to sell on the side of the street - stuff that in America we'd have to get permits for. It seemed that the oligarchy had an understanding with the people: let us control the big picture, and we'll look the other way for the little things. But Chinese politics is a pendulum swinging very widely. From Tienanmen Square and Tank Man, it had swung quite a bit the other way. But today, it's come back 180-degrees. Xi is really trying for a Cultural Revolution 2.0. These impressions largely match what I hear from other Chinese immigrants - except for Party members, who tend not to want to talk about it at all. I'm afraid that you've been listening to too much propaganda.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 8mo ago
[flagged]
- chausen 8mo ago
  [flagged]
jajuuka 8mo ago
I love Hacker News fiction. Wild stuff. haha
imwillofficial 8mo ago
This risk is far overstated. I was talking crap about china from the great wall.
- expedition32 8mo ago
  You can't yell Free Palestine or the BBC will mute you... Personally as a Dutch person it is amusing as all hell hoe goddamn triggered everyone gets about Israel- truly mindblowing.
carabiner 8mo ago
[flagged]
deaux 8mo ago
Did everyone clap and Albert Einstein hand you a crisp $10 bill? You should use that to make the bet you mentioned! (The first half is obviously true, the second part isn't)
holoduke 8mo ago
Which chat bot?
heavyset_go 8mo ago
I ran an anonymized Facebook account for years with thousands of followers that mainly sticks to news and politics. Once I started criticizing Libs of TikTok, the propaganda arm for this administration, and getting traction with users, my account was locked and now I have to scan my face and ID if I want to use it again. You have to toe the party line here, too.
ZeroAurora 8mo ago
Nice bad story. Make up one better next time.
- stevenhuang 8mo ago
  That you think this is made up shows how little you know about what the Chinese netizen deals with day to day. It is very real and I am not surprised at all something exactly like what op said has happened.
  - ZeroAurora 8mo ago
    What if I say I AM a Chinese netizen, right here in China Mainland talking to you? What if I say no application on my phone ever turn my camera on without my prior approval? What if I confidently say the data privacy situation in China is not in any way worse than USA? You say I'm censored by gov. Yeah, and so do YOU. We are quite the same, so don't laugh at each other.
    - stevenhuang 8mo ago
      If you ever allowed the app access to your camera then next time it will be able to access your camera. No one is suggesting the app need have circumvented standard android permissions. I'm saying it is not surprising the app would try to open the camera on violation of rules. You might be surprised to know that I do not disagree with what you said. When it comes to data privacy your information is safe from other private companies but not the government. > You say I'm censored by gov. When it comes to political inquiry? Without question this is more sensitive in China. My point is that in China apps are coerced to reveal information about their users to a degree where actively trying to take a picture would not be surprising, or much of an escalation. Not that it would be needed anyways since Internet usage is tied to ID.
glenstein 8mo ago
>Given the bot started printing the Western consensus first, I bet $10 it was trained by distilling ChatGPT or Gemini. To your point I've seen something similar with Deepseek, generic answers start printing and then, in plain sight, removed and replaced with a non committal message along the lines of "I don't have access to that information."

raven12345 8mo ago

Can you tell what AI chat bots are you using? as i know all chat in China just block answer, no apps will activate camera and ask for information

titaniumtown 8mo ago

> After printing the line, a popup opened and my camera was activated. The app wanted me to submit my information, presumably to decide what to do with me next time I enter China. Was this on your personal device? I'm just wondering how it activated your camera. I would love more details!

9999px 8mo ago
[flagged]
- kelseyfrog 8mo ago
  [flagged]
- parl_match 8mo ago
  An increasing use of AI is to gather user feedback. The Chatbot UI detected an error state, and then loaded a feedback vendor, who then popped the camera open for their interactive feedback session I've run into this a few times, now. So what OP is saying is plausible, I just don't appreciate their added and probably incorrect conclusion that it's because the government of China wants to do something to them
  - fasbiner 8mo ago
    What are you talking about? Why are you using imprecise language like "popped the camera open?" You've run into a site you view on chrome/firefox/safari accessing your camera without granting access a few times now? Can you give us an example of a site that does this so we can reproduce? Or could you retract your statement and clarify that you did grant camera permissions for that site previously? Otherwise, you're saying very casually there's a huge bug and security issue that no one else has detected but you personally have seem multiple times. I've run into people on the internet misremembering things or not understanding how the browser works more times than I've run into browsers allowing access to system devices like the camera without a permission prompt.
    - parl_match 8mo ago
      > Or could you retract your statement and clarify that you did grant camera permissions for that site previously? I never said anything about granting permissions. I can respond to your other points, in turn, but first I would like you to confirm that I am who you think you are responding to :) I am not OP. In case you don't think I'm OP, then, well I was being imprecise. Yes, it requires browser/app/manifest permissions. Your paranoid and aggressive tone implies you're not giving me any benefit of the doubt, as I speak informally in a casual web forum discussion about understanding what happened.
      - fasbiner 8mo ago
        Sorry, I think of HN as a technical forum where people prize precision. I think that when you informally bolster lies of omission with your own imprecise language agreeing with it, that harms the quality of discussion and creates pointless confusion. I think you get less benefit of the doubt if you do that routinely. By your own admission you do that routinely since you use this as a place to speak informally in a casual web discussion where you are often imprecise or lie by omission.
        parl_match 8mo ago
        Actually, I didn't bolster a lie by omission. I provided context as to what their experience might be based on my own. It is entirely possible that they aren't lying. That is your assertion that you are making as if it's fact. I think it's more likely that they are unaware of what is happening. You didn't have all of the information, and you are making assumptions that are very likely incorrect. Furthermore, it is a given that user consent is asked for camera access in most situations. If this is a concept that you need explained to you in every situation, then you may need to review your knowledge or competency. Which is to say, if you need this explained, you should probably speak less and listen more :) Anyways, I think this conversation is over. Your unnecessarily aggressive and hostile tone is unwarranted and I no longer wish to talk with you. Feel free to have the last word if you wish. .
anvuong 8mo ago
Yeah that part is either just bullshit or OP gave the bot access to his camera previously, which is just dumb.
- sixseven 8mo ago
  The story smells like bullshit to me.
- crossroadsguy 8mo ago
  OP might have meant that it asked for camera permission. Or OP might have set camera permission to auto allow but then that is also stupid (more so).
- Justitia 8mo ago
  I would not be surprised if they just activated the camera

3rodents 8mo ago

If this were true, why didn’t the chatbot immediately recognize that the word “Taiwan” should trigger the response? Detecting the word “Taiwan” has been possible since before most of us were born. China has more restrictions on what you can say than the U.S. but what you are describing is not reality. Some westerner asking Deepseek about Taiwan is completely uninteresting. Just as the government do not chase people over VPN usage. China doesn’t try to hide that they are an authoritarian state. They don’t need to. Most people in China are no less happy with their government than westerners are with their governments. Governments reflect culture. And as for foreigners, our view of China is far worse than it actually is, China doesn’t need to hide anything, people who visit China will come away with a more positive view of the country than those who do not visit.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
CWuestefeld 8mo ago
This is manifestly false. My wife grew up in Shanghai, and you'll have to go quite some distance to find someone more critical of the PRC and CCP than she is. And it's with good reason. She grew up during the cultural revolution, and was largely raised by her grandmother because literally every other person in her extended family was in prison or work camp, not because of anything they had actually done wrong, but for political reasons because the whole family was blacklisted. And that's not just the old days. Her father died as a direct result of Chinese Covid policy. During the pandemic her cousins still in the country would ask her (on Skype) "is X true?", and largely their perception of what was going on was false. She would exfiltrate encrypted news reports to them - until those started getting blocked. Her dad's estate still has affairs that need to be resolved, but we've decided not to return to China until Xi is gone, as it's just not safe. It doesn't get much airplay, but there are currently a couple of hundred Americans who are being illegally detained in China right now. It's not worth the risk. My first trip to China was about 30 years ago, shortly after we got married. And back then, I would have said that you were right. Honestly, it felt like for the average person in their day-to-day-lives, the Chinese were less under the governmental thumb than we are. People from the countryside would bring their produce into the city to sell, or cook dumplings and buns to sell on the side of the street - stuff that in America we'd have to get permits for. It seemed that the oligarchy had an understanding with the people: let us control the big picture, and we'll look the other way for the little things. But Chinese politics is a pendulum swinging very widely. From Tienanmen Square and Tank Man, it had swung quite a bit the other way. But today, it's come back 180-degrees. Xi is really trying for a Cultural Revolution 2.0. These impressions largely match what I hear from other Chinese immigrants - except for Party members, who tend not to want to talk about it at all. I'm afraid that you've been listening to too much propaganda.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 8mo ago

[flagged]

chausen 8mo ago
[flagged]

jajuuka 8mo ago

I love Hacker News fiction. Wild stuff. haha

imwillofficial 8mo ago

This risk is far overstated. I was talking crap about china from the great wall.

expedition32 8mo ago
You can't yell Free Palestine or the BBC will mute you... Personally as a Dutch person it is amusing as all hell hoe goddamn triggered everyone gets about Israel- truly mindblowing.

carabiner 8mo ago

[flagged]

deaux 8mo ago

Did everyone clap and Albert Einstein hand you a crisp $10 bill? You should use that to make the bet you mentioned! (The first half is obviously true, the second part isn't)

holoduke 8mo ago

Which chat bot?

heavyset_go 8mo ago

I ran an anonymized Facebook account for years with thousands of followers that mainly sticks to news and politics. Once I started criticizing Libs of TikTok, the propaganda arm for this administration, and getting traction with users, my account was locked and now I have to scan my face and ID if I want to use it again. You have to toe the party line here, too.

ZeroAurora 8mo ago

Nice bad story. Make up one better next time.

stevenhuang 8mo ago
That you think this is made up shows how little you know about what the Chinese netizen deals with day to day. It is very real and I am not surprised at all something exactly like what op said has happened.
- ZeroAurora 8mo ago
  What if I say I AM a Chinese netizen, right here in China Mainland talking to you? What if I say no application on my phone ever turn my camera on without my prior approval? What if I confidently say the data privacy situation in China is not in any way worse than USA? You say I'm censored by gov. Yeah, and so do YOU. We are quite the same, so don't laugh at each other.
  - stevenhuang 8mo ago
    If you ever allowed the app access to your camera then next time it will be able to access your camera. No one is suggesting the app need have circumvented standard android permissions. I'm saying it is not surprising the app would try to open the camera on violation of rules. You might be surprised to know that I do not disagree with what you said. When it comes to data privacy your information is safe from other private companies but not the government. > You say I'm censored by gov. When it comes to political inquiry? Without question this is more sensitive in China. My point is that in China apps are coerced to reveal information about their users to a degree where actively trying to take a picture would not be surprising, or much of an escalation. Not that it would be needed anyways since Internet usage is tied to ID.

glenstein 8mo ago

>Given the bot started printing the Western consensus first, I bet $10 it was trained by distilling ChatGPT or Gemini. To your point I've seen something similar with Deepseek, generic answers start printing and then, in plain sight, removed and replaced with a non committal message along the lines of "I don't have access to that information."