7 ms·

I think Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM. RAM isn't going anywhere, all of modern compute uses it. This would be an opportunity to create domestic su

by Aerroon 8mo ago

I think Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM. RAM isn't going anywhere, all of modern compute uses it. This would be an opportunity to create domestic supply of it.

throw_m239339 8mo ago
> I think Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM. RAM isn't going anywhere, all of modern compute uses it. This would be an opportunity to create domestic supply of it. It's easy to build factories, much more difficult to train the engineers required to run them... and let's not even talk about all the crazy regulations & environmental rules at the EU level that make that task even more difficult, because yes, chip factories do pollute... a lot. Countries like South Korea or Taiwan have adapted all their legislations and tax, environmental regulations to allow such factories to operate easily. The EU and EU countries will never do that... better outsource pollution and claim they care about the planet...
- trollbridge 8mo ago
  Doesn’t the EU have an excellent education system?
  - throw_m239339 8mo ago
    > Doesn’t the EU have an excellent education system? Well, the EU has not manufactured a whole lot of chips in the last 30 years, where do you get the people with the professional experience to teach new engineers... Oh you mean you have to import the teachers from South Asia too? /s and it takes what, 5 years at the minimum to train an engineer? France and UK used to produce entire home computers... in the 80's...
    - nine_k 8mo ago
      Come on, STM, Nordic, Infineon, NXP are all European. There is a bunch of chip-making installations in Dresden, Germany (Global Foundries, Bosch, etc), and there's Intel Fab 34 in Ireland. BTW TSMC is planning to open a production facility in Europe in 2027. This is not comparable to Taiwan or the Shenzen area, but it's definitely not nothing. Some local expertise exists, even though it may be not the most cutting-edge.
      - kgeist 8mo ago
        ASML, which is based in the Netherlands, produces chip-making machines which TSMC and everyone else use to produce said chips. I think they got some expertise too :)
        nine_k 8mo ago
        This is so, but ASML does not produce chips. There's a difference between e.g. building an airplane and piloting an airplane.
        joe_mamba 8mo ago
        ASML doesn't make chips, they make the machines.
  - nine_k 8mo ago
    Even the most excellent education system takes several yeas to educate a high-schooler to a level of a junior engineer. Then several more years are needed for the best of them to become senior engineers, with the knowledge and experience that a university alone cannot provide. So, we're looking at a decade-long project at least, even if everything goes as planned, and crazy fast, in the technical and administrative departments.
    - autoexec 8mo ago
      All the more reason to start now I guess. Putting it off isn't going to get them that knowledge and experience any sooner. If something happens over the next 10 years that eliminates our need for memory chips things will probably be either too messed up or too wonderful for anyone to cry over the years they needlessly spent trying to secure a domestic source of RAM.
  - TacticalCoder 8mo ago
    > Doesn’t the EU have an excellent education system? Excellent universities, overall. But results from primary and secondary schools are nose diving at a more than alarming rate in several EU countries. Literacy rates are falling, math grades are falling. There's IMO only so much time before universities begin to be affected as well.
    - silon42 8mo ago
      Maybe having less RAM and using pen/paper instead of tablet/phone will improve things...
    - u_sama 8mo ago
      It is a general phenomenon across the Western developped world, here is the account of a professor which went viral a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43522966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43522966
  - Ray20 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - iamacyborg 8mo ago
      That’s a remarkably misinformed take.
- SolubleSnake 8mo ago
  I am a CAD engineer and software developer who has worked in manufacturing a lot in the UK in various industries - products as big as superyachts and as small as peristaltic pumps. I think if the UK and EU are to try and defend their weakening and shrinking manufacturing sectors (these industries have been disappearing for my entire adult life) then it is possible but difficult...In 10 to 20 years it will be impossible. The reason is as you have described. We are getting close to where the numbers of people with practical experience working in, managing, and designing things like the work processes and factory layouts in industries that build physical products are disappearing. We're losing a lot of capable practical engineers with hands on experience. We can keep the universities going teaching the physical subjects but those lecturers wouldn't know even where to begin on designing and building efficient factories unfortunately. We'd probably end up having to get Chinese and Taiwanese businesses to outsource their 'experts' back to us in order to actually do this and pay them a fortune - basically the reverse of what was happening in the manufacturing sector in the 80s and 90s!
  - throwaway_20357 8mo ago
    This is going on for decades and I wonder what the actual business model for the EU economy is in the future. With all factories soon gone, will Europe rely on agriculture, tourism and some services only? Back to a "developing country" economy?
- throwaway2037 8mo ago
  A parallel reply from me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47162226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47162226 The same applies to your comment.
Gigachad 8mo ago
The worry is that these high prices aren't going to last long. And by the time you spend years building the capacity, the prices plummet making your facility uneconomical to run. Ram will always be in some demand, but that doesn't mean it's viable for everyone to start building production.
- autoexec 8mo ago
  Not everyone but a supplier in the Europe would be a massive benefit long after the AI driven demand dies off. It'd free them from dependence on other countries for a critical resource making chips more affordable and the supply more stable which is good because the stability of the rest of the world is already questionable and big shocks are expected in the near future.
- dijit 8mo ago
  There's a few things to note here: 1) Prices aren't returning to "normal". The only way they will is if the hyperscalers and AI companies start to implode -- which will kill a huge portion of the US economy and lead to global recession, so, cheap RAM but nobody can afford it 2) By building up capacity you influence the outcome. If someone else enters the DRAM space, the duopoly has to actually start thinking about competing on price, maybe they become price competitive before the launch of your new fab in order to kill it, but, it will have an effect and probably before it even opens 3) A western supply chain has benefits by itself. There's a reason some industries are not allowed to die, most notably farming- because security and external pressure are concerning. --- Realistically there's no reason not to do this. It will be long, painful and expensive. The best time was a decade ago. The next best time is now.
  - Gigachad 8mo ago
    Your first point highlights the huge unmitigated risk. There is no guarantee that this won't all implode, triggering a huge recession. And even if no one can afford the ram after, they especially won't be able to afford the more expensive European ram. Really the only way it could work is if the government declares it it a national security issue and will promise to subsidize it. Because in just a free market, it's most likely to flop.
alephnerd 8mo ago
> I think Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM ... This would be an opportunity to create domestic supply of it How? Most foundries across Asia and the US are being given subsidizes that outstrip those that the EU is providing, with the only mega-foundry project in Europe was canceled by Intel last year [0]. Additionally, much of the backend work like OSAT and packaging is done in ASEAN (especially Malaysia), Taiwan, China, and India. As much of the work for memory chips is largely backend work (OSAT and packaging), this is a field the EU simply cannot compete in given that it has FTAs with the US, Japan, South Korea, India, and Vietnam so any EU attempt would be crushed well before imitating the process. Furthermore, much of the IP in the memory space is owned by Korean, Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, and American champions who are largely investing either domestically or in Asia, as was seen with MUFG's announcement earlier today to create a dedicated end-to-end semiconductor fund specifically to unify Japan, Taiwan, and India into a single fab-to-fabless ecosystem [1]. SoftBank announced something similar to unify the US, Japan, Malaysia, and India into a similar end-to-end ecosystem as well a couple weeks ago [2]. Meanwhile, South Korea is trying to further shore up their domestic capacity [3] via subsidies and industrial policy. When Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese technology and capital partners are uninterested in investing in building European capacity, American technology and capital partners have pulled out of similar initiatives in Europe, and the EU working to ban Chinese players [4] what can the EU even do? ---- Edit: can't reply > Why are you overlooking European semiconductor champions Because they don't have the IP for the flash memory supply chain. And whatever capacity and IP they have in chip design, front-end fab, or back-end fab is domiciled in the US, ASEAN, and India. > STMicroelectronics Power electronics and legacy nodes (28nm and above) for IoT and embedded applications. > Infineon Power electronics and legacy nodes (28nm and above) for automotive applications. > NXP Power electronics and legacy nodes (28nm and above) for embedded applications. > All of them are skilled enough to build and operate a DRAM fab in Europe. A bunch of EU dev banks can lend the monies to get it built. They don't have the IP. Much of the IP for the memory space is owned by Japanese, American, Korean, Taiwanese and Chinese companies. Additionally, most Asian funds own both the IP and capital (often with government backing), making European attempts futile. Essentially, the EU would have to start from scratch and decades behind countries with whom the EU already has FTAs with that have expanded capacity well before the EU and thus would be able to crush any incipient European competitor. [0] - https://www.it-daily.net/shortnews-en/intel-officially-cancels-construction-of-chip-factory-in-magdeburg-germany https://www.it-daily.net/shortnews-en/intel-officially-cance... [1] - https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20260224VL219/taiwan-talent-semiconductor-industry-policy-labor.html https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20260224VL219/taiwan-talent-... [2] - https://asia.nikkei.com/economy/trade-war/trump-tariffs/softbank-to-form-consortium-for-33bn-trump-deal-power-plant https://asia.nikkei.com/economy/trade-war/trump-tariffs/soft... [3] - https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251230PD220/semiconductor-industry-chips-roadmap-transistor-technology.html https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251230PD220/semiconductor-... [4] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042295 https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042...
malshe 8mo ago
Aren’t Chinese manufacturers already expanding their capacity? Given that Samsung and SK Hynix have left that market in the pursuit of HBM4 chips, China is going to rule this market. At least that’s what analysts are saying.
- alephnerd 8mo ago
  Chinese manufacturers like CXMT face the same kinds of issues that Huawei faced in entering the EU market - the EU is clamping down on Chinese suppliers across their supply chain [0]. Where can CXMT and other Chinese players export when Japan, South Korea, much of ASEAN, India, much of North America, the EU, the UK, Australia, NZ, and parts of the Gulf have enacted or begun enacting trade barriers against Chinese exports? [0] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042295 https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042...
  - Ygg2 8mo ago
    Then those countries that didn't will have an advantage at selling their electronics to the world. Or their consumers will enjoy cheap PC part prices. With possible gray zone re-export market. Of course we could see retreat from global markets to mercantilism, but that has yet to fully happen.
    - alephnerd 8mo ago
      Or China could stop antagonizing blocs like the EU through actions like solidifying ties with Russia [0][1][2], imposing rare earth export restrictions on the EU [3], and undermining EU institutions [4]. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/xi-putin-hail-ties-video-call-ukraine-war-nears-anniversary-2026-02-04/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/xi-putin-hail-tie... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-president-xi-meets-with-russias-prime-minister-mishustin-2025-11-04/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-president-xi-meet... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-calls-closer-defence-ties-with-russia-ministers-talks-2026-01-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-calls-closer-defen... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/eu-steps-up-efforts-cut-reliance-chinese-rare-earths-2025-10-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/eu-steps-up-efforts-cut-... [4] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch...
gib444 8mo ago
Yup. The countries giving huge tax breaks to American corporations could start taxing them and use it to invest in RAM production
throwaway2037 8mo ago
Idea: Take the money that Germany promised to Intel if they build a state of the art fab. Instead, ask SK Hynix, Samsung, or Micron to build a DRAM fab in Germany.
- Ray20 8mo ago
  It may seem that these are very similar processes, but this is only if you do not take into account the bribes from Intel to specific officials and their relatives who make decisions about subsidizing Intel. SK Hynix, Samsung, or Micron don't treat good people well enough to give them taxpayer money.
  - throwaway2037 8mo ago
    > but this is only if you do not take into account the bribes from Intel to specific officials and their relatives who make decisions about subsidizing Intel. Bribes? Sheesh, HN has gone insane. Brandolini's Law is out of control here. You are making a bold fucking claim. From the tone of your post, it seems pointless to ask if you have any evidence. From and outsider's view, I would say the German political system is much less corrupted by lobbyists compared to the United States. Do you say the same about the CHIPS Act in the United States?
    - Ray20 8mo ago
      > I would say the German political system is much less corrupted by lobbyists compared to the United States. I highly doubt it. I'm certainly no expert on Germany, but has Germany's bureaucratic machine spent decades destroying its own energy sector to buy energy from Russia, funding the war machine of Putin's totalitarian dictatorship? And not just by buying these resources, but by OVERPAYING for them many times over. I just opened a chart of the prices at which Germany bought natural gas from Russia before the war with Ukraine, and it's wild, it is several times more expensive than Germany is now paying for gas delivered from the other side of the globe on tiny ships. It was a direct subsidizing of this war. And then you look at these high-ranking (and not so high-ranking) bureaucrats who made all these decisions... And literally all of their families got richer during the time these decisions were made, by tens (and sometimes hundreds) of millions. There's zero accountability, zero media coverage, and it's all being hushed up to such an extent that I can't think of any other explanation other than EVERYONE was taking the money. We are literally talking about the level of existence of a centralized totalitarian machine for the forceful silencing of anyone who tries to talk about this topic. So do I say the same about the CHIPS Act in the US? Probably. But the level of corruption seen in Germany – pervasive, bloody, destructive – is simply unimaginable in the US.
chvid 8mo ago
Europe can do one simple to ensure low RAM prices: Allow ASML to sell all its advanced machines to Chinese RAM producers.
Tade0 8mo ago
There exists domestic supply, it's just not scaled up: https://www.goodram.com/en/ https://www.goodram.com/en/ You don't see their products in stores too often as they're focused on B2B - particularly the automotive sector. That being said I have a 128GB memory stick from this manufacturer and I hope they make the most out of this windfall.
- rasz 8mo ago
  Thats assembly, couple lanes of PCB Reflow ovens. They have been at this since mid nineties, always offering lifetime ram warranty too. Ram and SSD pretty commonly seen in retail.
- duskwuff 8mo ago
  I'm pretty sure they're just assembling DIMMs (and SSDs), not fabricating the memory ICs on it. The latter are what are in short supply.
artemonster 8mo ago
Qimonda says hello from the grave
JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
> Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM It should. And it should enact the political reforms they would make large capital projects like fabs possible. The current confederacy is proving just as much a stepping stone for Europe as it was for America. I’m not saying a full united Europe should emerge. But a system of vetoes is barely a system at all.
alecco 8mo ago
Europe needs to focus on energy and fixing their supply chain first. And the deregulation push keeps getting delayed. Just the other day the main person behind it in Germany got sacked because of internal power struggles, in part because of the Greens (part of the coalition). For context, the German manufacturing sector is losing something like 15k jobs PER MONTH.
- OoooooooO 8mo ago
  The Greens are not part of the current government. What are you talking about?
  - alecco 8mo ago
    Brain fart. I mean CDU. I guess they behave like Greens so much I got them confused. Also, not "sacked" but not renewed, but it's kind of the same thing in practice. https://x.com/olk_julian/status/2025937252086382918 https://x.com/olk_julian/status/2025937252086382918

by Aerroon 8mo ago

I think Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM. RAM isn't going anywhere, all of modern compute uses it. This would be an opportunity to create domestic supply of it.

throw_m239339 8mo ago

> I think Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM. RAM isn't going anywhere, all of modern compute uses it. This would be an opportunity to create domestic supply of it. It's easy to build factories, much more difficult to train the engineers required to run them... and let's not even talk about all the crazy regulations & environmental rules at the EU level that make that task even more difficult, because yes, chip factories do pollute... a lot. Countries like South Korea or Taiwan have adapted all their legislations and tax, environmental regulations to allow such factories to operate easily. The EU and EU countries will never do that... better outsource pollution and claim they care about the planet...

trollbridge 8mo ago
Doesn’t the EU have an excellent education system?
- throw_m239339 8mo ago
  > Doesn’t the EU have an excellent education system? Well, the EU has not manufactured a whole lot of chips in the last 30 years, where do you get the people with the professional experience to teach new engineers... Oh you mean you have to import the teachers from South Asia too? /s and it takes what, 5 years at the minimum to train an engineer? France and UK used to produce entire home computers... in the 80's...
  - nine_k 8mo ago
    Come on, STM, Nordic, Infineon, NXP are all European. There is a bunch of chip-making installations in Dresden, Germany (Global Foundries, Bosch, etc), and there's Intel Fab 34 in Ireland. BTW TSMC is planning to open a production facility in Europe in 2027. This is not comparable to Taiwan or the Shenzen area, but it's definitely not nothing. Some local expertise exists, even though it may be not the most cutting-edge.
    - kgeist 8mo ago
      ASML, which is based in the Netherlands, produces chip-making machines which TSMC and everyone else use to produce said chips. I think they got some expertise too :)
      - nine_k 8mo ago
        This is so, but ASML does not produce chips. There's a difference between e.g. building an airplane and piloting an airplane.
      - joe_mamba 8mo ago
        ASML doesn't make chips, they make the machines.
- nine_k 8mo ago
  Even the most excellent education system takes several yeas to educate a high-schooler to a level of a junior engineer. Then several more years are needed for the best of them to become senior engineers, with the knowledge and experience that a university alone cannot provide. So, we're looking at a decade-long project at least, even if everything goes as planned, and crazy fast, in the technical and administrative departments.
  - autoexec 8mo ago
    All the more reason to start now I guess. Putting it off isn't going to get them that knowledge and experience any sooner. If something happens over the next 10 years that eliminates our need for memory chips things will probably be either too messed up or too wonderful for anyone to cry over the years they needlessly spent trying to secure a domestic source of RAM.
- TacticalCoder 8mo ago
  > Doesn’t the EU have an excellent education system? Excellent universities, overall. But results from primary and secondary schools are nose diving at a more than alarming rate in several EU countries. Literacy rates are falling, math grades are falling. There's IMO only so much time before universities begin to be affected as well.
  - silon42 8mo ago
    Maybe having less RAM and using pen/paper instead of tablet/phone will improve things...
  - u_sama 8mo ago
    It is a general phenomenon across the Western developped world, here is the account of a professor which went viral a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43522966 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43522966
- Ray20 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - iamacyborg 8mo ago
    That’s a remarkably misinformed take.
SolubleSnake 8mo ago
I am a CAD engineer and software developer who has worked in manufacturing a lot in the UK in various industries - products as big as superyachts and as small as peristaltic pumps. I think if the UK and EU are to try and defend their weakening and shrinking manufacturing sectors (these industries have been disappearing for my entire adult life) then it is possible but difficult...In 10 to 20 years it will be impossible. The reason is as you have described. We are getting close to where the numbers of people with practical experience working in, managing, and designing things like the work processes and factory layouts in industries that build physical products are disappearing. We're losing a lot of capable practical engineers with hands on experience. We can keep the universities going teaching the physical subjects but those lecturers wouldn't know even where to begin on designing and building efficient factories unfortunately. We'd probably end up having to get Chinese and Taiwanese businesses to outsource their 'experts' back to us in order to actually do this and pay them a fortune - basically the reverse of what was happening in the manufacturing sector in the 80s and 90s!
- throwaway_20357 8mo ago
  This is going on for decades and I wonder what the actual business model for the EU economy is in the future. With all factories soon gone, will Europe rely on agriculture, tourism and some services only? Back to a "developing country" economy?
throwaway2037 8mo ago
A parallel reply from me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47162226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47162226 The same applies to your comment.

Gigachad 8mo ago

The worry is that these high prices aren't going to last long. And by the time you spend years building the capacity, the prices plummet making your facility uneconomical to run. Ram will always be in some demand, but that doesn't mean it's viable for everyone to start building production.

autoexec 8mo ago
Not everyone but a supplier in the Europe would be a massive benefit long after the AI driven demand dies off. It'd free them from dependence on other countries for a critical resource making chips more affordable and the supply more stable which is good because the stability of the rest of the world is already questionable and big shocks are expected in the near future.
dijit 8mo ago
There's a few things to note here: 1) Prices aren't returning to "normal". The only way they will is if the hyperscalers and AI companies start to implode -- which will kill a huge portion of the US economy and lead to global recession, so, cheap RAM but nobody can afford it 2) By building up capacity you influence the outcome. If someone else enters the DRAM space, the duopoly has to actually start thinking about competing on price, maybe they become price competitive before the launch of your new fab in order to kill it, but, it will have an effect and probably before it even opens 3) A western supply chain has benefits by itself. There's a reason some industries are not allowed to die, most notably farming- because security and external pressure are concerning. --- Realistically there's no reason not to do this. It will be long, painful and expensive. The best time was a decade ago. The next best time is now.
- Gigachad 8mo ago
  Your first point highlights the huge unmitigated risk. There is no guarantee that this won't all implode, triggering a huge recession. And even if no one can afford the ram after, they especially won't be able to afford the more expensive European ram. Really the only way it could work is if the government declares it it a national security issue and will promise to subsidize it. Because in just a free market, it's most likely to flop.

alephnerd 8mo ago

> I think Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM ... This would be an opportunity to create domestic supply of it How? Most foundries across Asia and the US are being given subsidizes that outstrip those that the EU is providing, with the only mega-foundry project in Europe was canceled by Intel last year [0]. Additionally, much of the backend work like OSAT and packaging is done in ASEAN (especially Malaysia), Taiwan, China, and India. As much of the work for memory chips is largely backend work (OSAT and packaging), this is a field the EU simply cannot compete in given that it has FTAs with the US, Japan, South Korea, India, and Vietnam so any EU attempt would be crushed well before imitating the process. Furthermore, much of the IP in the memory space is owned by Korean, Japanese, Taiwanese, Chinese, and American champions who are largely investing either domestically or in Asia, as was seen with MUFG's announcement earlier today to create a dedicated end-to-end semiconductor fund specifically to unify Japan, Taiwan, and India into a single fab-to-fabless ecosystem [1]. SoftBank announced something similar to unify the US, Japan, Malaysia, and India into a similar end-to-end ecosystem as well a couple weeks ago [2]. Meanwhile, South Korea is trying to further shore up their domestic capacity [3] via subsidies and industrial policy. When Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese technology and capital partners are uninterested in investing in building European capacity, American technology and capital partners have pulled out of similar initiatives in Europe, and the EU working to ban Chinese players [4] what can the EU even do? ---- Edit: can't reply > Why are you overlooking European semiconductor champions Because they don't have the IP for the flash memory supply chain. And whatever capacity and IP they have in chip design, front-end fab, or back-end fab is domiciled in the US, ASEAN, and India. > STMicroelectronics Power electronics and legacy nodes (28nm and above) for IoT and embedded applications. > Infineon Power electronics and legacy nodes (28nm and above) for automotive applications. > NXP Power electronics and legacy nodes (28nm and above) for embedded applications. > All of them are skilled enough to build and operate a DRAM fab in Europe. A bunch of EU dev banks can lend the monies to get it built. They don't have the IP. Much of the IP for the memory space is owned by Japanese, American, Korean, Taiwanese and Chinese companies. Additionally, most Asian funds own both the IP and capital (often with government backing), making European attempts futile. Essentially, the EU would have to start from scratch and decades behind countries with whom the EU already has FTAs with that have expanded capacity well before the EU and thus would be able to crush any incipient European competitor. [0] - https://www.it-daily.net/shortnews-en/intel-officially-cancels-construction-of-chip-factory-in-magdeburg-germany https://www.it-daily.net/shortnews-en/intel-officially-cance... [1] - https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20260224VL219/taiwan-talent-semiconductor-industry-policy-labor.html https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20260224VL219/taiwan-talent-... [2] - https://asia.nikkei.com/economy/trade-war/trump-tariffs/softbank-to-form-consortium-for-33bn-trump-deal-power-plant https://asia.nikkei.com/economy/trade-war/trump-tariffs/soft... [3] - https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251230PD220/semiconductor-industry-chips-roadmap-transistor-technology.html https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20251230PD220/semiconductor-... [4] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042295 https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042...

malshe 8mo ago

Aren’t Chinese manufacturers already expanding their capacity? Given that Samsung and SK Hynix have left that market in the pursuit of HBM4 chips, China is going to rule this market. At least that’s what analysts are saying.

alephnerd 8mo ago
Chinese manufacturers like CXMT face the same kinds of issues that Huawei faced in entering the EU market - the EU is clamping down on Chinese suppliers across their supply chain [0]. Where can CXMT and other Chinese players export when Japan, South Korea, much of ASEAN, India, much of North America, the EU, the UK, Australia, NZ, and parts of the Gulf have enacted or begun enacting trade barriers against Chinese exports? [0] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042295 https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042...
- Ygg2 8mo ago
  Then those countries that didn't will have an advantage at selling their electronics to the world. Or their consumers will enjoy cheap PC part prices. With possible gray zone re-export market. Of course we could see retreat from global markets to mercantilism, but that has yet to fully happen.
  - alephnerd 8mo ago
    Or China could stop antagonizing blocs like the EU through actions like solidifying ties with Russia [0][1][2], imposing rare earth export restrictions on the EU [3], and undermining EU institutions [4]. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/xi-putin-hail-ties-video-call-ukraine-war-nears-anniversary-2026-02-04/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/xi-putin-hail-tie... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-president-xi-meets-with-russias-prime-minister-mishustin-2025-11-04/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-president-xi-meet... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-calls-closer-defence-ties-with-russia-ministers-talks-2026-01-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-calls-closer-defen... [3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/eu-steps-up-efforts-cut-reliance-chinese-rare-earths-2025-10-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/eu-steps-up-efforts-cut-... [4] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/china-tells-eu-it-cannot-afford-russian-loss-ukraine-war-sources-say https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch...

gib444 8mo ago

Yup. The countries giving huge tax breaks to American corporations could start taxing them and use it to invest in RAM production

throwaway2037 8mo ago

Idea: Take the money that Germany promised to Intel if they build a state of the art fab. Instead, ask SK Hynix, Samsung, or Micron to build a DRAM fab in Germany.

Ray20 8mo ago
It may seem that these are very similar processes, but this is only if you do not take into account the bribes from Intel to specific officials and their relatives who make decisions about subsidizing Intel. SK Hynix, Samsung, or Micron don't treat good people well enough to give them taxpayer money.
- throwaway2037 8mo ago
  > but this is only if you do not take into account the bribes from Intel to specific officials and their relatives who make decisions about subsidizing Intel. Bribes? Sheesh, HN has gone insane. Brandolini's Law is out of control here. You are making a bold fucking claim. From the tone of your post, it seems pointless to ask if you have any evidence. From and outsider's view, I would say the German political system is much less corrupted by lobbyists compared to the United States. Do you say the same about the CHIPS Act in the United States?
  - Ray20 8mo ago
    > I would say the German political system is much less corrupted by lobbyists compared to the United States. I highly doubt it. I'm certainly no expert on Germany, but has Germany's bureaucratic machine spent decades destroying its own energy sector to buy energy from Russia, funding the war machine of Putin's totalitarian dictatorship? And not just by buying these resources, but by OVERPAYING for them many times over. I just opened a chart of the prices at which Germany bought natural gas from Russia before the war with Ukraine, and it's wild, it is several times more expensive than Germany is now paying for gas delivered from the other side of the globe on tiny ships. It was a direct subsidizing of this war. And then you look at these high-ranking (and not so high-ranking) bureaucrats who made all these decisions... And literally all of their families got richer during the time these decisions were made, by tens (and sometimes hundreds) of millions. There's zero accountability, zero media coverage, and it's all being hushed up to such an extent that I can't think of any other explanation other than EVERYONE was taking the money. We are literally talking about the level of existence of a centralized totalitarian machine for the forceful silencing of anyone who tries to talk about this topic. So do I say the same about the CHIPS Act in the US? Probably. But the level of corruption seen in Germany – pervasive, bloody, destructive – is simply unimaginable in the US.

chvid 8mo ago

Europe can do one simple to ensure low RAM prices: Allow ASML to sell all its advanced machines to Chinese RAM producers.

Tade0 8mo ago

There exists domestic supply, it's just not scaled up: https://www.goodram.com/en/ https://www.goodram.com/en/ You don't see their products in stores too often as they're focused on B2B - particularly the automotive sector. That being said I have a 128GB memory stick from this manufacturer and I hope they make the most out of this windfall.

rasz 8mo ago
Thats assembly, couple lanes of PCB Reflow ovens. They have been at this since mid nineties, always offering lifetime ram warranty too. Ram and SSD pretty commonly seen in retail.
duskwuff 8mo ago
I'm pretty sure they're just assembling DIMMs (and SSDs), not fabricating the memory ICs on it. The latter are what are in short supply.

artemonster 8mo ago

Qimonda says hello from the grave

JumpCrisscross 8mo ago

> Europe should invest into manufacturing RAM It should. And it should enact the political reforms they would make large capital projects like fabs possible. The current confederacy is proving just as much a stepping stone for Europe as it was for America. I’m not saying a full united Europe should emerge. But a system of vetoes is barely a system at all.

alecco 8mo ago

Europe needs to focus on energy and fixing their supply chain first. And the deregulation push keeps getting delayed. Just the other day the main person behind it in Germany got sacked because of internal power struggles, in part because of the Greens (part of the coalition). For context, the German manufacturing sector is losing something like 15k jobs PER MONTH.

OoooooooO 8mo ago
The Greens are not part of the current government. What are you talking about?
- alecco 8mo ago
  Brain fart. I mean CDU. I guess they behave like Greens so much I got them confused. Also, not "sacked" but not renewed, but it's kind of the same thing in practice. https://x.com/olk_julian/status/2025937252086382918 https://x.com/olk_julian/status/2025937252086382918