6 ms·

> has an agenda Everyone has an agenda. Is anything on this site false? Is it incorrect information?

by richwater 8mo ago

thephyber 8mo ago
Lies can be either by commission or omission.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
teaearlgraycold 8mo ago
I don't think it makes a good case for itself. No automotive paint shops sounds kind of ridiculous. I don't know anything about that industry but there has to be a way to paint cars in a safe way, right?? But lumping that in with semiconductor fabs, which are extremely toxic, makes me wonder how many of these banned industries I don't want in my state. I think if we want to build them in the US maybe don't build them in the most agriculturally productive and highest population state. Or first figure out how to do it without turning the US into China with its "cancer villages" from poisoned river water. I'm not defending the dysfunctional CA bureaucracy, but the site should probably focus on specific cases of government-produced insanity than a general complaint that certain industries are banned from operation.
- ixtli 8mo ago
  It actually makes me wanna move to CA.
- MikeTheGreat 8mo ago
  > No automotive paint shops Wait, hold on - I watched all the seasons of "Rust To Riches" on Netflix, about a small shop that flips cars. They routinely painted cars. They'd paint in this sealed-up room/garage thingee, the guy would wear and industrial-grade mask, and the camera would slide past as he expertly painted the car. The 30 second montages looked awesome! That show took place in Temecula, California. So there's no way that site is accurate. And, more to the point, if they want to show that they are accurate they should be linking to the rules & regulations that actually prohibit these things instead of just making a claim & calling it a day.
  - _2d30 8mo ago
    The website is extremely clear about this being about _new_ automotive paint shops, so nothing you said here refutes the website.
    - avs733 8mo ago
      He doesn’t need to refute it he just needs to offer an alternate claim. The site provides no citations, no evidence, so there’s no need to defend the count argument or honestly even make it. The sit isn’t just false, it is flat out disrespectful to all the workers, engineers, founders, and everyone else involved in the industries he says don’t exist that actually do exist. The site is basically “I think this is hard so no one else could possibly do it”.
  - cucumber3732842 8mo ago
    They're likely falling under some "we aren't selling car painting as a service or main part of our business, we're painting our own cars as a small ancillary part of our real business" exemption.
    - mothballed 8mo ago
      Sounds like the "llantera" model you see out west. There's about 10x the number of them that would actually be needed just to change tires.
  - chipsa 8mo ago
    It’s not claiming: you can’t have an automotive paint shop. It’s claiming you can’t start a new paint shop. Specifically, if you don’t have one for your car manufacturing line already, you can’t set one up. Wikipedia shows 13 pages for auto plants in CA. Most of them have the verb “was” in the opening sentence. There are two current plants: Tesla Fremont and Toyota California. Both of these plants are over 50 years old, and only one of them produces actual cars instead of parts.
    - inigyou 8mo ago
- amluto 8mo ago
  I would imagine a paint booth with negative pressure and particle and carbon filters on the exhaust would work fine. I go by a paint shop every now and then. It’s not nearly as smelly as a quite of a few of the nearby restaurants.
- ashdksnndck 8mo ago
  I assume you use semiconductors yourself, since you are posting here. But you want their manufacture to be banned in your state. So the right thing is to outsource the dirty jobs to countries that can’t afford to be picky? Wouldn’t it be better for the world if we used our wealth to develop methods of safe semiconductor manufacturing with low environmental impact, and proudly built those facilities in California?
  - WD-42 8mo ago
    Well that's the whole problem isn't it? It's not like the laws are simply "you can't make semiconductors here". The laws ban the harmful externalities of the process. The companies that want to make semiconductors don't want to find a way to make the processes less harmful: it's cheaper and easier to just go somewhere where they can pollute instead.
    - ashdksnndck 8mo ago
      In many cases, California’s environmental regulations don’t make an earnest attempt to permit safe ways to do things.
      - WD-42 8mo ago
        And in all cases, those industries make no earnest attempt to develop safe ways to do things instead of simply doing it where it doesn't matter.
        CamperBob2 8mo ago
        [Citation needed]
        saghm 8mo ago
        A sibling comment a few levels up provided it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160514
- bsder 8mo ago
  > I don't know anything about that industry but there has to be a way to paint cars in a safe way, right?? There are. They just cost more and take more time. > But lumping that in with semiconductor fabs, which are extremely toxic People say this all the time, but semiconductor fabs simply aren't very toxic compared to just about every other industrial manufacturing process. Mostly this is because everything is sealed and sealed and sealed some more. Yes, they handle stuff like arsenic gas (arsine AsH3), but they really try to reclaim it all. The semiconductor waste stream is often purer than most industrial inputs. Yeah, old plants would just dump crap into the environment. However, for modern semiconductor facilities, it is generally more economic to reprocess your waste than try to purify from primary sources. Now, PCB manufacturing, on the other hand, is quite terrible or at least it used to be. I don't know if people have sealed and automated that yet.
- chrismcb 8mo ago
  California, by density, is that highly populated. I didn't really like the idea is "hey we need to build something that uses a toxic process, by just don't build it here. Build it somewhere else." Unless that somewhere else is in outer space.
burkaman 8mo ago
Really difficult to say because it doesn't make many concrete claims. It doesn't mention any regulations or say what chemicals or processes are actually banned. These are not easy things to look up. I can tell you that at least the semiconductor fabrication stuff is false, there are many fabs in California and here's a new one as of a few days ago: https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/19/san-jose-tech-nokia-infinera-chip-jobs-work-economy-build-property-ai/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/19/san-jose-tech-nokia-i.... I realize it isn't completed yet but I don't think anyone is buying sites for something that's impossible to build. Here's another one: https://www.bosch-semiconductors.com/roseville/ https://www.bosch-semiconductors.com/roseville/
- _2d30 8mo ago
  I can tell you that your two articles that intended to refute the semiconductor fabrication stuff fail to do so. Both sites were existing facilities and would therefore fall under the granfathered in point in the site.
  - burkaman 8mo ago
    That's true they are not new buildings. Here's one that is: https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-platform/epic-centers/epic-center-silicon-valley.html https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-pl... The Infinera one is described as a "new fab" though (https://www.nist.gov/chips/infinera-california-san-jose https://www.nist.gov/chips/infinera-california-san-jose) and the Bosch one is adding a new type of fabrication to an existing site. If you can do all that without getting new permits then that makes California sound like a pretty lenient place to do business. I'm assuming they did have to get new permits though.
    - _2d30 8mo ago
      > Here's one that is: https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-pl https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-pl... This might be a refutation but it's not super clear. It's definitely not a commercial semiconductor fab but it might do all of or some subset of what a commercial fab does at R&D scale. Hard to know for sure how this jives with the claim in the main website. > If you can do all that without getting new permits then that makes California sound like a pretty lenient place to do business. Being able to retool under original zoning/permitting is specifically lenient? That's extremely basic. If you're a co-Californian with me, though, it does help to understand that many people think that anyone doing anything without a permit is "lenient". > I'm assuming they did have to get new permits though. Well, that makes it really easy to be "right". I should try this more.
no-dr-onboard 8mo ago
Maybe reworded as “He has skin in the game” > so obviously his point can’t be true > so obviously he’s biased and we can’t do the mental work of sifting > so obviously I can dismiss this as teleologically false. Please don’t be so lazy you guys. There is something to be gained here.
- autoexec 8mo ago
  > so obviously he’s biased and we can’t do the mental work of sifting This guy, with an obvious bias, created a website that misrepresents the situation in California (by implying things are banned or "nearly impossible" when in actuality they just take time/effort), while also failing to show the specific regulations or requirements for any of it. Without supplying that kind of information this website is little better than "It's banned. trust me bro". It's not our responsibility to try to dig up evidence to support or verify this guys claims just because he can't be bothered to do it. His motivations, his framing of the problem, and his failure to back up his own statements makes the site pretty damn easy to dismiss and I don't even doubt that there might be instances where bad regulation exists, especially regulation that protects the profits of established players in certain industries by keeping out competition. I'm entirely sympathetic to the idea that it might be happening, but if there is something to be gained you aren't going to find it on this guys website. Serious coverage on this topic would include actionable information we can use to identify and solve specific problems. This is just anti-regulation propaganda.
  - Brian_K_White 8mo ago
    The lack of citations makes it not just easy to dismiss but an obligation to dismiss. Your downvotes are invalid.
  - no-dr-onboard 8mo ago
    Your argument makes sense to me and changed my mind. Thank you.
- vampirical 8mo ago
  Why do you think there's something to be gained here? There are a lot of cheap and easy checks this content fails that it represents a well formed argument based on reality.
zdp7 8mo ago
I don't know. He didn't provide anything to backup his claims. Without data that site is worthless.
SecretDreams 8mo ago
Yes. They lump in sheet metal stamping with giga casting. They are completely different techs with different energy footprints. Banning aluminum casting does not implicitly ban stamping.
matthewmacleod 8mo ago
It isn't even information – it's noise. I'm actually quite surprised by the number of people who have fallen for this. There aren't even any concrete claims here – just the vague assertion that some things are "impossible".
jwagenet 8mo ago
> Aluminum Anodizing & CNC Machining There are a ton of CNC machining (AL and otherwise) and anodizing shops in the Bay Area.

> has an agenda Everyone has an agenda. Is anything on this site false? Is it incorrect information?

thephyber 8mo ago

Lies can be either by commission or omission.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

teaearlgraycold 8mo ago

I don't think it makes a good case for itself. No automotive paint shops sounds kind of ridiculous. I don't know anything about that industry but there has to be a way to paint cars in a safe way, right?? But lumping that in with semiconductor fabs, which are extremely toxic, makes me wonder how many of these banned industries I don't want in my state. I think if we want to build them in the US maybe don't build them in the most agriculturally productive and highest population state. Or first figure out how to do it without turning the US into China with its "cancer villages" from poisoned river water. I'm not defending the dysfunctional CA bureaucracy, but the site should probably focus on specific cases of government-produced insanity than a general complaint that certain industries are banned from operation.

ixtli 8mo ago
It actually makes me wanna move to CA.
MikeTheGreat 8mo ago
> No automotive paint shops Wait, hold on - I watched all the seasons of "Rust To Riches" on Netflix, about a small shop that flips cars. They routinely painted cars. They'd paint in this sealed-up room/garage thingee, the guy would wear and industrial-grade mask, and the camera would slide past as he expertly painted the car. The 30 second montages looked awesome! That show took place in Temecula, California. So there's no way that site is accurate. And, more to the point, if they want to show that they are accurate they should be linking to the rules & regulations that actually prohibit these things instead of just making a claim & calling it a day.
- _2d30 8mo ago
  The website is extremely clear about this being about _new_ automotive paint shops, so nothing you said here refutes the website.
  - avs733 8mo ago
    He doesn’t need to refute it he just needs to offer an alternate claim. The site provides no citations, no evidence, so there’s no need to defend the count argument or honestly even make it. The sit isn’t just false, it is flat out disrespectful to all the workers, engineers, founders, and everyone else involved in the industries he says don’t exist that actually do exist. The site is basically “I think this is hard so no one else could possibly do it”.
- cucumber3732842 8mo ago
  They're likely falling under some "we aren't selling car painting as a service or main part of our business, we're painting our own cars as a small ancillary part of our real business" exemption.
  - mothballed 8mo ago
    Sounds like the "llantera" model you see out west. There's about 10x the number of them that would actually be needed just to change tires.
- chipsa 8mo ago
  It’s not claiming: you can’t have an automotive paint shop. It’s claiming you can’t start a new paint shop. Specifically, if you don’t have one for your car manufacturing line already, you can’t set one up. Wikipedia shows 13 pages for auto plants in CA. Most of them have the verb “was” in the opening sentence. There are two current plants: Tesla Fremont and Toyota California. Both of these plants are over 50 years old, and only one of them produces actual cars instead of parts.
  - inigyou 8mo ago
amluto 8mo ago
I would imagine a paint booth with negative pressure and particle and carbon filters on the exhaust would work fine. I go by a paint shop every now and then. It’s not nearly as smelly as a quite of a few of the nearby restaurants.
ashdksnndck 8mo ago
I assume you use semiconductors yourself, since you are posting here. But you want their manufacture to be banned in your state. So the right thing is to outsource the dirty jobs to countries that can’t afford to be picky? Wouldn’t it be better for the world if we used our wealth to develop methods of safe semiconductor manufacturing with low environmental impact, and proudly built those facilities in California?
- WD-42 8mo ago
  Well that's the whole problem isn't it? It's not like the laws are simply "you can't make semiconductors here". The laws ban the harmful externalities of the process. The companies that want to make semiconductors don't want to find a way to make the processes less harmful: it's cheaper and easier to just go somewhere where they can pollute instead.
  - ashdksnndck 8mo ago
    In many cases, California’s environmental regulations don’t make an earnest attempt to permit safe ways to do things.
    - WD-42 8mo ago
      And in all cases, those industries make no earnest attempt to develop safe ways to do things instead of simply doing it where it doesn't matter.
      - CamperBob2 8mo ago
        [Citation needed]
        saghm 8mo ago
        A sibling comment a few levels up provided it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47160514
bsder 8mo ago
> I don't know anything about that industry but there has to be a way to paint cars in a safe way, right?? There are. They just cost more and take more time. > But lumping that in with semiconductor fabs, which are extremely toxic People say this all the time, but semiconductor fabs simply aren't very toxic compared to just about every other industrial manufacturing process. Mostly this is because everything is sealed and sealed and sealed some more. Yes, they handle stuff like arsenic gas (arsine AsH3), but they really try to reclaim it all. The semiconductor waste stream is often purer than most industrial inputs. Yeah, old plants would just dump crap into the environment. However, for modern semiconductor facilities, it is generally more economic to reprocess your waste than try to purify from primary sources. Now, PCB manufacturing, on the other hand, is quite terrible or at least it used to be. I don't know if people have sealed and automated that yet.
chrismcb 8mo ago
California, by density, is that highly populated. I didn't really like the idea is "hey we need to build something that uses a toxic process, by just don't build it here. Build it somewhere else." Unless that somewhere else is in outer space.

burkaman 8mo ago

Really difficult to say because it doesn't make many concrete claims. It doesn't mention any regulations or say what chemicals or processes are actually banned. These are not easy things to look up. I can tell you that at least the semiconductor fabrication stuff is false, there are many fabs in California and here's a new one as of a few days ago: https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/19/san-jose-tech-nokia-infinera-chip-jobs-work-economy-build-property-ai/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2026/02/19/san-jose-tech-nokia-i.... I realize it isn't completed yet but I don't think anyone is buying sites for something that's impossible to build. Here's another one: https://www.bosch-semiconductors.com/roseville/ https://www.bosch-semiconductors.com/roseville/

_2d30 8mo ago
I can tell you that your two articles that intended to refute the semiconductor fabrication stuff fail to do so. Both sites were existing facilities and would therefore fall under the granfathered in point in the site.
- burkaman 8mo ago
  That's true they are not new buildings. Here's one that is: https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-platform/epic-centers/epic-center-silicon-valley.html https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-pl... The Infinera one is described as a "new fab" though (https://www.nist.gov/chips/infinera-california-san-jose https://www.nist.gov/chips/infinera-california-san-jose) and the Bosch one is adding a new type of fabrication to an existing site. If you can do all that without getting new permits then that makes California sound like a pretty lenient place to do business. I'm assuming they did have to get new permits though.
  - _2d30 8mo ago
    > Here's one that is: https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-pl https://www.appliedmaterials.com/us/en/semiconductor/epic-pl... This might be a refutation but it's not super clear. It's definitely not a commercial semiconductor fab but it might do all of or some subset of what a commercial fab does at R&D scale. Hard to know for sure how this jives with the claim in the main website. > If you can do all that without getting new permits then that makes California sound like a pretty lenient place to do business. Being able to retool under original zoning/permitting is specifically lenient? That's extremely basic. If you're a co-Californian with me, though, it does help to understand that many people think that anyone doing anything without a permit is "lenient". > I'm assuming they did have to get new permits though. Well, that makes it really easy to be "right". I should try this more.

no-dr-onboard 8mo ago

Maybe reworded as “He has skin in the game” > so obviously his point can’t be true > so obviously he’s biased and we can’t do the mental work of sifting > so obviously I can dismiss this as teleologically false. Please don’t be so lazy you guys. There is something to be gained here.

autoexec 8mo ago
> so obviously he’s biased and we can’t do the mental work of sifting This guy, with an obvious bias, created a website that misrepresents the situation in California (by implying things are banned or "nearly impossible" when in actuality they just take time/effort), while also failing to show the specific regulations or requirements for any of it. Without supplying that kind of information this website is little better than "It's banned. trust me bro". It's not our responsibility to try to dig up evidence to support or verify this guys claims just because he can't be bothered to do it. His motivations, his framing of the problem, and his failure to back up his own statements makes the site pretty damn easy to dismiss and I don't even doubt that there might be instances where bad regulation exists, especially regulation that protects the profits of established players in certain industries by keeping out competition. I'm entirely sympathetic to the idea that it might be happening, but if there is something to be gained you aren't going to find it on this guys website. Serious coverage on this topic would include actionable information we can use to identify and solve specific problems. This is just anti-regulation propaganda.
- Brian_K_White 8mo ago
  The lack of citations makes it not just easy to dismiss but an obligation to dismiss. Your downvotes are invalid.
- no-dr-onboard 8mo ago
  Your argument makes sense to me and changed my mind. Thank you.
vampirical 8mo ago
Why do you think there's something to be gained here? There are a lot of cheap and easy checks this content fails that it represents a well formed argument based on reality.

zdp7 8mo ago

I don't know. He didn't provide anything to backup his claims. Without data that site is worthless.

SecretDreams 8mo ago

Yes. They lump in sheet metal stamping with giga casting. They are completely different techs with different energy footprints. Banning aluminum casting does not implicitly ban stamping.

matthewmacleod 8mo ago

It isn't even information – it's noise. I'm actually quite surprised by the number of people who have fallen for this. There aren't even any concrete claims here – just the vague assertion that some things are "impossible".

jwagenet 8mo ago

> Aluminum Anodizing & CNC Machining There are a ton of CNC machining (AL and otherwise) and anodizing shops in the Bay Area.