3 ms·

There's a reason they call them Caucasian.

by legerdemain 7mo ago

gnull 7mo ago
[flagged]
- orthoxerox 7mo ago
  Or if you're a 19th century German phrenologist.
- shermantanktop 7mo ago
  In Florida it wouldn’t be confusing to refer to someone from Hawaii as “Hawaiian,” but in Hawaii it means something much more specific about ancestry, and it’s considered rude and even offensive to misuse it. In NYC they pronounce Oregon as “Ore-gone,” even though Oregonians pronounce it “Ore-gun.” In Portland, mispronunciation marks you as an ignorant outsider. Every place has idiosyncratic misuses of terms that come from somewhere else. Of course you are correct about “Caucasian,” but wherever you are from, I’m sure you misuse some other term. Labeling it as uneducated and unaware is a form of snobbery that you’re unlikely to be entitled to. None of us are.
  - gnull 7mo ago
    Fair point, I agree I made it too arrogant. We all have things we misuse, but I think those things may characterize us sometimes. For example, in Russian we often misuse the word Hindu to mean Indian. It may mean that the person is uneducated and maybe even unaware of the difference. A couple of my friends who've been to India or are nerds about other cultures, don't misuse the word, some even go around ranting about it. I personally feel that the way Americans use "Caucasian" is a more blatant misuse than others, and maybe that's what made me react that way. Like what is exact idea one has to miss and be unaware of to use "Caucasian" for "white"? What adds to it is that, if I understand correctly, using "Caucasian" instead of "white" in English makes you sound more official and important. I guess I can see that it's being used due to legal tradition and that's hard to change.
    - shermantanktop 7mo ago
      Race is a tricky topic in the US due to history. The term is an 18th century creation of German academia, but somehow got adopted in the late 19th c in the US, presumably because racial restrictions were written into law and so fancy terminology was adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race From that Wikipedia article I learned it is used in Australia too, another place where an immigrant white majority wrote their dominance into law. WRT to “Hindu” for south Asians — that’s amazing to me, I’d be boggled to hear someone say that.
adrian_b 7mo ago
No, Caucasian is a bogus term whose origin is in a misinterpretation of the Bible. In the Genesis, humans were partitioned in descendants of Japheth, Ham and Shem, hence terms like Hamites and Semites. However the meaning of this partition was completely other than its naive interpretation that was common during Medieval times and until recently. This partition had absolutely nothing to do with race or with the languages spoken by people, which were pretty much irrelevant in the Antiquity. The partition was based purely on political dependence. The descendants of Ham were the people politically dependent on Egypt and the descendants of Shem were the people dependent on Assyro-Babylonia. An example of people closely related and who spoke a very similar language, but who were divided based on political allegiance is that the Phoenicians were counted as descendants of Ham, because they belonged to Egypt, while Hebrews were counted as descendants of Shem, because they belonged to Assyro-Babylonia. Japheth refers to Caucasus and the descendants of Japheth were the people from Anatolia, where Indo-European kingdoms, like that of the Hittites, were dominant. During Medieval times, this grouping of people from the Bible was completely misunderstood and it was believed that it refers to race, so it was believed that "descendants of Ham" refers to Africans and "descendants of Japheth", i.e. Caucasians, refers to "white" Europeans, hence the stupid name used in America of "Caucasian".
victorbjorklund 7mo ago
You got it the opposite way. basically some pseudoscientist thought that the schools of people from the Caucasus had the most beautiful skulls when they were dead. and since he was white he thought that this must be where all white people are coming from. So he claimed that white people are Caucasian. Even if this is of course not true that most Anglo-Saxon people are coming from the Caucasian mountains.
- victorbjorklund 7mo ago
  Skulls*

There's a reason they call them Caucasian.

gnull 7mo ago

[flagged]

orthoxerox 7mo ago
Or if you're a 19th century German phrenologist.
shermantanktop 7mo ago
In Florida it wouldn’t be confusing to refer to someone from Hawaii as “Hawaiian,” but in Hawaii it means something much more specific about ancestry, and it’s considered rude and even offensive to misuse it. In NYC they pronounce Oregon as “Ore-gone,” even though Oregonians pronounce it “Ore-gun.” In Portland, mispronunciation marks you as an ignorant outsider. Every place has idiosyncratic misuses of terms that come from somewhere else. Of course you are correct about “Caucasian,” but wherever you are from, I’m sure you misuse some other term. Labeling it as uneducated and unaware is a form of snobbery that you’re unlikely to be entitled to. None of us are.
- gnull 7mo ago
  Fair point, I agree I made it too arrogant. We all have things we misuse, but I think those things may characterize us sometimes. For example, in Russian we often misuse the word Hindu to mean Indian. It may mean that the person is uneducated and maybe even unaware of the difference. A couple of my friends who've been to India or are nerds about other cultures, don't misuse the word, some even go around ranting about it. I personally feel that the way Americans use "Caucasian" is a more blatant misuse than others, and maybe that's what made me react that way. Like what is exact idea one has to miss and be unaware of to use "Caucasian" for "white"? What adds to it is that, if I understand correctly, using "Caucasian" instead of "white" in English makes you sound more official and important. I guess I can see that it's being used due to legal tradition and that's hard to change.
  - shermantanktop 7mo ago
    Race is a tricky topic in the US due to history. The term is an 18th century creation of German academia, but somehow got adopted in the late 19th c in the US, presumably because racial restrictions were written into law and so fancy terminology was adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race From that Wikipedia article I learned it is used in Australia too, another place where an immigrant white majority wrote their dominance into law. WRT to “Hindu” for south Asians — that’s amazing to me, I’d be boggled to hear someone say that.

adrian_b 7mo ago

No, Caucasian is a bogus term whose origin is in a misinterpretation of the Bible. In the Genesis, humans were partitioned in descendants of Japheth, Ham and Shem, hence terms like Hamites and Semites. However the meaning of this partition was completely other than its naive interpretation that was common during Medieval times and until recently. This partition had absolutely nothing to do with race or with the languages spoken by people, which were pretty much irrelevant in the Antiquity. The partition was based purely on political dependence. The descendants of Ham were the people politically dependent on Egypt and the descendants of Shem were the people dependent on Assyro-Babylonia. An example of people closely related and who spoke a very similar language, but who were divided based on political allegiance is that the Phoenicians were counted as descendants of Ham, because they belonged to Egypt, while Hebrews were counted as descendants of Shem, because they belonged to Assyro-Babylonia. Japheth refers to Caucasus and the descendants of Japheth were the people from Anatolia, where Indo-European kingdoms, like that of the Hittites, were dominant. During Medieval times, this grouping of people from the Bible was completely misunderstood and it was believed that it refers to race, so it was believed that "descendants of Ham" refers to Africans and "descendants of Japheth", i.e. Caucasians, refers to "white" Europeans, hence the stupid name used in America of "Caucasian".

victorbjorklund 7mo ago

You got it the opposite way. basically some pseudoscientist thought that the schools of people from the Caucasus had the most beautiful skulls when they were dead. and since he was white he thought that this must be where all white people are coming from. So he claimed that white people are Caucasian. Even if this is of course not true that most Anglo-Saxon people are coming from the Caucasian mountains.

victorbjorklund 7mo ago
Skulls*