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> Hamas was the first to cast the stone. Palestine is a country under a brutal military occupation and progressive illegal colonisation that has been going on

> Hamas was the first to cast the stone. Palestine is a country under a brutal military occupation and progressive illegal colonisation that has been going on for 80 years. Before October 7, Israel had already killed many, many more civilians in Gaza than Hamas did in Israel with that attack.

weirdmantis69 8mo ago
[flagged]
- hsuduebc2 8mo ago
  Many countries disagree with that. However, virtually everyone agree that it is not Israeli territory.
- meenxo 8mo ago
  oh nice, you are making us all sob with those tough words
- xg15 8mo ago
  What are the Palestinians then?
  - xdennis 8mo ago
    Historically, Palestine has never been a country. The Romans captured Judea, and later expelled the Jews and renamed the province Syria Palaestina (after previous enemies of the Jews). After the Romans, many other empires held the land: the Arabs, Mamluks, Turks, British. But at no point was it a country. Even when the Egyptians and Jordanians captured Gaza and the West Bank, they didn't give independence to Palestine. Israel captured Gaza/West Bank. They gave full control to Gaza in 2005. So you could say Gaza is a country now.
    - xg15 8mo ago
      Yes, that's the standard text, I know. (Just ignoring the arab movement since the 1880s to make it a country and the British promise to help with that). But that wasn't my question. If Palestine isn't a country, then what are the Palestinians?
    - sharts 8mo ago
      There are official old coins, newspapers, etc. with Palestine written on them. It has long been an entity.
      - Alex_L_Wood 8mo ago
        Here’s a bit of history lesson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine TL;DR has nothing to do with Palestine of today
- craftkiller 8mo ago
  There isn't really a single way to define a country. For background, I would recommend this video from the Map Men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nB688xBYdY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nB688xBYdY But following their conclusion: the thing that makes you a country is being recognized as one by other countries. Most of the world recognizes Palestine as a country (including 157 UN member states). Here is a map where the green countries recognize Palestine, and grey do not: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Palestine_recognition_only.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Palestin...
pojzon 8mo ago
When you know what father of Israel did during WW2 to fund the current Israel. Uhg, too bad its not taught in school coz history is written by winners and you have to search for it yourself. Yes Israel commits an ongoing genocide. And I look at this only by lens of history.
naasking 8mo ago
> Palestine is a country under a brutal military occupation and progressive illegal colonisation that has been going on for 80 years. If Mexico had started attacking the US across the border, what would the US do? I'm curious to hear what you think a country should do in this circumstance.
- throw310822 8mo ago
  Are the US currently illegally occupying large parts of Mexico and progressively colonising it, displacing and oppressing the Mexican population? And if that were the case, would you say that Mexico had started attacking the US across the border? Or would you say that the US are waging war against Mexico and Mexico is fighting back?
  - naasking 8mo ago
    You have the timeline backwards. Palestinians attacked Jews first, then Jews occupied the invaders.
    - throw310822 8mo ago
      I disagree with this timeline (the Jews got there in the first place with the precise, declared intent of colonising somebody else's land. That's the whole point of Zionism). But more in general, there's no point in following a tit-for-tat that goes back 80 years or more with the intent of finding "who was the first". Each event further down the chain completely reverses the assessment, and you can't base any solid reasoning on such grounds. What you have to look at is the big picture: who is occupying someone else's territory? Who is oppressing the other with overwhelming force? Which side keeps taking and which keeps losing?
      - naasking 8mo ago
        > the Jews got there in the first place with the precise, declared intent of colonising somebody else's land. That's the whole point of Zionism Yes, but they were doing it by legally purchasing land, not through violent displacement. Arabs then rioted against Jewish communities, and that started the cycle of violence. And note how this push for Zionism coincides with a global expansion of antisemitism after WWI. The only place Jews could find reliable support was among their people and protected by the British who were bound to uphold the Barfour declaration. > What you have to look at is the big picture: who is occupying someone else's territory? But if you ignore the history, you can't actually determine whose territory it is can you? Jews purchased land from Arabs, Arabs repeatedly started conflicts with them and Jews repeatedly beat them back. Losers in a conflict lose territory, and the armistice following Israel's founding drew the expanded lines. As for the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank today, I agree it's problematic, but what exactly Israel supposed to do when they keep getting attacked? They were attacked after the armistice with Jordan and Egypt, so once again, they didn't start anything. If Mexico repeatedly attacked the US, they would do the same thing. Hamas continues to have over 70% support among Gazans, even now, and Hamas murders anyone who speaks against them.
boruto 8mo ago
> Israel had already killed many, many more civilians in Gaza than Hamas did in Israel with that attack. And how does it justify Hamas killing unarmed civilians? How does it justify Hamas lobbing grenades at Nepali students? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0kllzqk1vo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0kllzqk1vo
- throw310822 8mo ago
  That's not what I am answering to, but the assertion "Hamas threw the first stone". No it didn't.

weirdmantis69 8mo ago

[flagged]

hsuduebc2 8mo ago
Many countries disagree with that. However, virtually everyone agree that it is not Israeli territory.
meenxo 8mo ago
oh nice, you are making us all sob with those tough words
xg15 8mo ago
What are the Palestinians then?
- xdennis 8mo ago
  Historically, Palestine has never been a country. The Romans captured Judea, and later expelled the Jews and renamed the province Syria Palaestina (after previous enemies of the Jews). After the Romans, many other empires held the land: the Arabs, Mamluks, Turks, British. But at no point was it a country. Even when the Egyptians and Jordanians captured Gaza and the West Bank, they didn't give independence to Palestine. Israel captured Gaza/West Bank. They gave full control to Gaza in 2005. So you could say Gaza is a country now.
  - xg15 8mo ago
    Yes, that's the standard text, I know. (Just ignoring the arab movement since the 1880s to make it a country and the British promise to help with that). But that wasn't my question. If Palestine isn't a country, then what are the Palestinians?
  - sharts 8mo ago
    There are official old coins, newspapers, etc. with Palestine written on them. It has long been an entity.
    - Alex_L_Wood 8mo ago
      Here’s a bit of history lesson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine TL;DR has nothing to do with Palestine of today
craftkiller 8mo ago
There isn't really a single way to define a country. For background, I would recommend this video from the Map Men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nB688xBYdY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nB688xBYdY But following their conclusion: the thing that makes you a country is being recognized as one by other countries. Most of the world recognizes Palestine as a country (including 157 UN member states). Here is a map where the green countries recognize Palestine, and grey do not: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Palestine_recognition_only.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Palestin...

pojzon 8mo ago

When you know what father of Israel did during WW2 to fund the current Israel. Uhg, too bad its not taught in school coz history is written by winners and you have to search for it yourself. Yes Israel commits an ongoing genocide. And I look at this only by lens of history.

naasking 8mo ago

> Palestine is a country under a brutal military occupation and progressive illegal colonisation that has been going on for 80 years. If Mexico had started attacking the US across the border, what would the US do? I'm curious to hear what you think a country should do in this circumstance.

throw310822 8mo ago
Are the US currently illegally occupying large parts of Mexico and progressively colonising it, displacing and oppressing the Mexican population? And if that were the case, would you say that Mexico had started attacking the US across the border? Or would you say that the US are waging war against Mexico and Mexico is fighting back?
- naasking 8mo ago
  You have the timeline backwards. Palestinians attacked Jews first, then Jews occupied the invaders.
  - throw310822 8mo ago
    I disagree with this timeline (the Jews got there in the first place with the precise, declared intent of colonising somebody else's land. That's the whole point of Zionism). But more in general, there's no point in following a tit-for-tat that goes back 80 years or more with the intent of finding "who was the first". Each event further down the chain completely reverses the assessment, and you can't base any solid reasoning on such grounds. What you have to look at is the big picture: who is occupying someone else's territory? Who is oppressing the other with overwhelming force? Which side keeps taking and which keeps losing?
    - naasking 8mo ago
      > the Jews got there in the first place with the precise, declared intent of colonising somebody else's land. That's the whole point of Zionism Yes, but they were doing it by legally purchasing land, not through violent displacement. Arabs then rioted against Jewish communities, and that started the cycle of violence. And note how this push for Zionism coincides with a global expansion of antisemitism after WWI. The only place Jews could find reliable support was among their people and protected by the British who were bound to uphold the Barfour declaration. > What you have to look at is the big picture: who is occupying someone else's territory? But if you ignore the history, you can't actually determine whose territory it is can you? Jews purchased land from Arabs, Arabs repeatedly started conflicts with them and Jews repeatedly beat them back. Losers in a conflict lose territory, and the armistice following Israel's founding drew the expanded lines. As for the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank today, I agree it's problematic, but what exactly Israel supposed to do when they keep getting attacked? They were attacked after the armistice with Jordan and Egypt, so once again, they didn't start anything. If Mexico repeatedly attacked the US, they would do the same thing. Hamas continues to have over 70% support among Gazans, even now, and Hamas murders anyone who speaks against them.

boruto 8mo ago

> Israel had already killed many, many more civilians in Gaza than Hamas did in Israel with that attack. And how does it justify Hamas killing unarmed civilians? How does it justify Hamas lobbing grenades at Nepali students? https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0kllzqk1vo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy0kllzqk1vo

throw310822 8mo ago
That's not what I am answering to, but the assertion "Hamas threw the first stone". No it didn't.