5 ms·

> So rather than risking sync issues uploading your 20MiB KDBX file on every minor change, you can upload just the 4KiB or so comprising that data. Why is your

> So rather than risking sync issues uploading your 20MiB KDBX file on every minor change, you can upload just the 4KiB or so comprising that data. Why is your KDBX file 20 MiB? It seems you are storing something that is not actually a good fit for a password manager, and expecting the entire world to change around you instead of storing those files in a more appropriate place.

ctoth 8mo ago
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." My kdbx is only 173 KB, but I don't hate this idea.
NoMoreNicksLeft 8mo ago
I don't use KP, but I have a pdf for my floor safe in my password manager. I only open it a few times per year and I need more than just the combination, I need instructions on whether the first number is cw or ccw. While I could no doubt look it up on the internet every time, I was fearful that the user's manual might some day disappear from the internet. Some things that aren't obviously passwords still belong in a password manager.
- ifh-hn 8mo ago
  Were that me (I used KP), it would be in a different kdbx file. This is one of the benefits of KP, I have about 8 different vaults for various things. I don't like putting my eggs in one basket.
  - wps 8mo ago
    You lose the convenience of one file though. In this case you might as well use a purpose built encryption tool rather than force KeePass into this usecase. A VeraCrypt container or encrypted overlay filesystem are a significant performance and UX upgrade since you are already willing to concede managing one file.
    - ifh-hn 8mo ago
      That's true regarding the one file convenience but from another angle it's a separation of concerns, especially considering it's a pdf accessed very occasionally. I maybe half agree with you about the encrypted overlay filesystem but only in respect to files, not passwords though. I tend not to keep files in KP, if I need a singular encrypted file I'd probably 7zip it (7z format) with a password and encrypt the filenames. The password goes in KP as does the location.
      - wps 8mo ago
        Yes we agree. Keep the passwords in the password manager and keep the files in the EOFS. If you need true seperation between those files, just make different containers or FS for them.
    - MzxgckZtNqX5i 8mo ago
      It's also possible to create dedicate entries for each of the other KeePass vaults and set the URL field and password to the respective paths (i.e., "kdbx://PATH/TO/OTHER/DATABASE.kdbx") and passwords, then you can simply double click on the URL field to automatically open and unlock the other vaults. The URL field in KeePass has lots of convenient features [0], but unfortunately they're quite "obscure" and not very discoverable. [0]: https://keepass.info/help/base/autourl.html https://keepass.info/help/base/autourl.html
- quesera 8mo ago
  In my mental model, the PDF is not a secret and can be stored anywhere -- encrypted, if desired, but it sounds like a public document. The safe combination is a secret, and obviously belongs in secret storage. In this specific example, if I had trouble remembering whether the first number of the combination was reached via cw or ccw rotations, I'd include that in the secret, e.g. "cw34-12-22-45". (Some safe combinations require multiple rotations. I unintentionally became the owner of one that is something like "cw3x34-ccw2x12-cw5x22-ccw2x45". I still can't open it actually, but that pattern is what the Internet tells me. :)
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 8mo ago
    >In my mental model, the PDF is not a secret and can be stored anywhere -- encrypted, if desired, but it sounds like a public document. Sure, but I will need it at the same time and for the same reason as the combination which does belong in the password manager. To store it separately would be more difficult. In any event, it's not large. I seem to remember it is only in the low hundreds of kilobytes. But there is occasion for such things. >I unintentionally became the owner of one that is something like "cw3x34-ccw2x12-cw5x22-ccw2x45" Mine is similar. I even have the cw/ccw in with the numbers, but that alone never seems to get it for me... sometimes I do need to look at the pdf. I simply don't get enough practice to do it from memory.
    - wps 8mo ago
      With cases like these, is it possible for you to simply copy the important text data into a note, or do you absolutely need the full pdf? Most attachments can be reduced down to their barest text form to avoid bloating the db.
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 8mo ago
        I could likely copy the entire paragraph that explains where to zero the dial to, which direction to start (and how many turns). It would be, I don't know, 120 words or so? But I don't think that it taxes the password manager to just add the pdf to the attachment. I haven't yet ran into a scenario where I desperately need to pare my encrypted vault down in size. Perhaps I don't understand the technology all that well though, and I'm setting myself up for grief later.
gerdesj 8mo ago
We have a single kdbx with nearly 7000 entries. It is about 45MB at the moment with very few text docs in it. It once got to over 100MB when I found people using it as a doc store but it had a bit of a clear out a few years back.

ctoth 8mo ago

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." My kdbx is only 173 KB, but I don't hate this idea.

NoMoreNicksLeft 8mo ago

I don't use KP, but I have a pdf for my floor safe in my password manager. I only open it a few times per year and I need more than just the combination, I need instructions on whether the first number is cw or ccw. While I could no doubt look it up on the internet every time, I was fearful that the user's manual might some day disappear from the internet. Some things that aren't obviously passwords still belong in a password manager.

ifh-hn 8mo ago
Were that me (I used KP), it would be in a different kdbx file. This is one of the benefits of KP, I have about 8 different vaults for various things. I don't like putting my eggs in one basket.
- wps 8mo ago
  You lose the convenience of one file though. In this case you might as well use a purpose built encryption tool rather than force KeePass into this usecase. A VeraCrypt container or encrypted overlay filesystem are a significant performance and UX upgrade since you are already willing to concede managing one file.
  - ifh-hn 8mo ago
    That's true regarding the one file convenience but from another angle it's a separation of concerns, especially considering it's a pdf accessed very occasionally. I maybe half agree with you about the encrypted overlay filesystem but only in respect to files, not passwords though. I tend not to keep files in KP, if I need a singular encrypted file I'd probably 7zip it (7z format) with a password and encrypt the filenames. The password goes in KP as does the location.
    - wps 8mo ago
      Yes we agree. Keep the passwords in the password manager and keep the files in the EOFS. If you need true seperation between those files, just make different containers or FS for them.
  - MzxgckZtNqX5i 8mo ago
    It's also possible to create dedicate entries for each of the other KeePass vaults and set the URL field and password to the respective paths (i.e., "kdbx://PATH/TO/OTHER/DATABASE.kdbx") and passwords, then you can simply double click on the URL field to automatically open and unlock the other vaults. The URL field in KeePass has lots of convenient features [0], but unfortunately they're quite "obscure" and not very discoverable. [0]: https://keepass.info/help/base/autourl.html https://keepass.info/help/base/autourl.html
quesera 8mo ago
In my mental model, the PDF is not a secret and can be stored anywhere -- encrypted, if desired, but it sounds like a public document. The safe combination is a secret, and obviously belongs in secret storage. In this specific example, if I had trouble remembering whether the first number of the combination was reached via cw or ccw rotations, I'd include that in the secret, e.g. "cw34-12-22-45". (Some safe combinations require multiple rotations. I unintentionally became the owner of one that is something like "cw3x34-ccw2x12-cw5x22-ccw2x45". I still can't open it actually, but that pattern is what the Internet tells me. :)
- NoMoreNicksLeft 8mo ago
  >In my mental model, the PDF is not a secret and can be stored anywhere -- encrypted, if desired, but it sounds like a public document. Sure, but I will need it at the same time and for the same reason as the combination which does belong in the password manager. To store it separately would be more difficult. In any event, it's not large. I seem to remember it is only in the low hundreds of kilobytes. But there is occasion for such things. >I unintentionally became the owner of one that is something like "cw3x34-ccw2x12-cw5x22-ccw2x45" Mine is similar. I even have the cw/ccw in with the numbers, but that alone never seems to get it for me... sometimes I do need to look at the pdf. I simply don't get enough practice to do it from memory.
  - wps 8mo ago
    With cases like these, is it possible for you to simply copy the important text data into a note, or do you absolutely need the full pdf? Most attachments can be reduced down to their barest text form to avoid bloating the db.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 8mo ago
      I could likely copy the entire paragraph that explains where to zero the dial to, which direction to start (and how many turns). It would be, I don't know, 120 words or so? But I don't think that it taxes the password manager to just add the pdf to the attachment. I haven't yet ran into a scenario where I desperately need to pare my encrypted vault down in size. Perhaps I don't understand the technology all that well though, and I'm setting myself up for grief later.

gerdesj 8mo ago

We have a single kdbx with nearly 7000 entries. It is about 45MB at the moment with very few text docs in it. It once got to over 100MB when I found people using it as a doc store but it had a bit of a clear out a few years back.