8 ms·

> In early December, a 35-year-old passenger from Tanzania was impressed to see that all the handles of the suitcases on the conveyor belt in the baggage claim

by jakub_g 8mo ago

> In early December, a 35-year-old passenger from Tanzania was impressed to see that all the handles of the suitcases on the conveyor belt in the baggage claim area were facing the passengers. > After the luggage is unloaded and collected in the cargo handling area upon arrival at the airport, ground support personnel manually align the handles of the bags and place them on the conveyor belt. That's a level of attention to detail that we should be striving for in everything we build.

afavour 8mo ago
I think it also highlights something: better things are possible. Zero lost suitcases doesn't require magic to achieve. It just requires enough workers or enough time to make sure each worker is able to do their job successfully. Unfortunately financial and time constraints mean that very often there aren't enough workers or enough time, and some passengers suffer.
- ToucanLoucan 8mo ago
  Oh why even mention time constraints, we all know damn well it's financial. Every corp on the face of the earth is constantly cost-cutting everything to the bone to justify more bonuses and higher executive compensation, while making sure the service or products provided are just barely good enough where people don't stage outright riots. In the sixties, the C-suite earned 21 times what the line worker did. In 2024 it's almost 300 times. So every single time you're dealing with a product that's been value-engineered to where it barely functions, or service people paid too little and empowered too little to actually help you, or stuck in a long ass line because they won't hire enough people, or stuck talking to some damn robot because people are expensive, it's beyond a safe bet that you have an executive or several to blame.
  - rectang 8mo ago
    We should be spreading our cynicism over both management and customers. There is almost no level of service so terrible that people won't buy cheaper airline tickets. Let alone losing luggage, you could dial up the risk of death and people would still buy the cheaper tickets.
    - afavour 8mo ago
      There's also something about the collapse in civility. Or... something. If you asked a plane full of passengers if they'd be happy to get their suitcase 5 minutes earlier even though it meant someone else lost theirs a lot of them would say yes.
      - psadauskas 8mo ago
        I think we can lay the blame for this on the wealthy elites, too. When people see someone better off than them greedily destroying society for their own personal gain, they naturally think "well why not me, too?".
    - bombcar 8mo ago
      We need shame, really, societal shame that we inflict on those who have to take government benefits, perhaps. Flying an airline that's known to treat their employees like shit should cause the people at the cocktail to look at you strange. (We kind of have something like this in that shopping at Costco is considered "good" but lots of people won't admit they shop at Walmart - I'm sure they'll be bankrupt soon given how many people don't shop there!)
      - eudamoniac 8mo ago
        Not sure if this is sarcasm, but Walmart earnings continue to rise. Being embarrassed to shop at Walmart is largely a coastal elite bubble situation. For a more applicable example of shame, buying "cheap Chinese crap" is usually looked down on by all demographics or alignments.
        bombcar 8mo ago
        That was the joke, everyone (at least in the coastal elite) says they don't shop at Walmart, but they exist everywhere. Same with "cheap Chinese crap" - everyone decries it, but apparently everyone is also buying it.
        8mo ago
  - jama211 8mo ago
    Well not every one on the face of this earth as that’s where Kansai airport is located. It happens a lot in America and other places too but not everywhere
- gmd63 8mo ago
  Also requires a culture of respect for the people who are handling baggage - an important thing lacking in parts of society in the US, where working fast food is used as a pejorative.
  - observationist 8mo ago
    The culture bit is the most important. You could add 100x the current headcount at all American airports and because the workers simply don't give a shit about doing good work, because they're treating it as a 9 to 5, where they have to go and suffer through a meaningless 8 hours, or worse, they treat it like their own personal access to other people's stuff to loot at will. The TSA is security theater, a vast majority of American jobs seem to be competence theater. You only ever tend to see care and craft in small business and actual crafts. It's so rare that it's incredibly refreshing to find anyone in any business that bothers to do good work and take care of the small things. It's not about respecting the baggage handlers. It's about a culture where you respect yourself such that you are obliged to do the best work you can, whether it's baggage handling, being a CEO, or flipping burgers. Self respect and respect for the job far outweigh any notion of employers or other citizens respecting baggage handlers. They have sophisticated notions of status and face and place in society that are sadly absent in American culture. You could take the Kansai airport baggage handler team and drop them into any airline in the world, and they'd perform to the same high standard. Take any halfass United Airline baggage team and drop them at Kansai and they'd be breaking guitars, killing dogs, and all the other usual shenanigans just like back at home, and they wouldn't give a flying rat's behind about how their employer respects them or not. They're there for paychecks. Respect doesn't even enter into consideration.
    - lostlogin 8mo ago
      > You could add 100x the current headcount at all American airports and because the workers simply don't give a shit about doing good work, because they're treating it as a 9 to 5, where they have to go and suffer through a meaningless 8 hours, or worse, they treat it like their own personal access to other people's stuff to loot at will. This places the blame solely on the workers. Their CEO earns a ludicrous multiple of their wage. They are treated like shit and are expendable. It’s a two way street, treat workers with respect and and you might get some respect from them.
- psadauskas 8mo ago
  > financial and time constraints What a passive way to say executives kept a larger share of profits for themselves, forcing workers to be stressed and do a sub-optimal job. Its like the news reports that say "an officers weapon was discharged and someone died at the scene", rather than "a cop shot and killed a guy".
  - hodgesrm 8mo ago
    > What a passive way to say executives kept a larger share of profits for themselves, forcing workers to be stressed and do a sub-optimal job. This is a very limited view of why things don't work. The main issue in my experience is whether the company values the outcome and ensures focus on optimizing for it. That can include everything from adequate staffing to comp to training to management focus. (A lot of the last one.) You can spend a huge amount of money and still get a crappy outcome. US healthcare provides a rich field of examples.
    - nick238 8mo ago
      US healthcare is a leader in administration fees (e.g. paying health system executives) compared to other countries around the world. High US healthcare cost isn't because of increased usage, but because of the higher admin fees and higher prescription drug prices. Prices are fixed high because law prevents the government from negotiating prices (o.b.o. Medicare/aid), and those provisions were inserted on behalf of pharmaceutical companies so their executives could make more money. Paying individual workers more may have some benefits, but I think the key issue is usually overworking and burnout because the incremental cost of adding a whole new employee is way higher than just pressuring workers to do more work in the same time.
- bakies 8mo ago
  Something I noticed when I traveled to Japan was how many workers there were just doing things. Attention to detail is so amazing. Things as simple as guiding people in the sidewalk while construction vehicles exit the site has a person dedicated to it
  - spaqin 8mo ago
    That sounds more like an attempt to fight with unemployment - any job, even if unnecessary, is better than no job for both finances and mental well-being.
    - bakies 8mo ago
      Compared to America where we don't even hire grocery store check out clerks anymore. I'd rather much be in the other boat.
- mc32 8mo ago
  Also you need to keep organized crime out of airports. Some percentage of lost luggage is actually stolen luggage. Misrouting is also another large percentage. In the US unclaimed lost luggage ends up in some gigantic warehouse in Alabama.
  - tarentel 8mo ago
    What percentage? I imagine it is insanely low. The risk to reward ratio of making money off a random bag at the airpot has got to be as low, if not lower than, the actual percentage stolen. One thing I've never been worried about it is organized crime, or anyone really, stealing my bag at an airport.
    - ummonk 8mo ago
      My understanding is it's taken as a given that the authorities at US airports aren't bothering to catch baggage / item thieves amongst airport staff. The only exception is when a firearm (or luggage containing a firearm) goes missing.
    - mc32 8mo ago
      Some airports are more notorious than others. Some suffer very little losses from theft rings, others suffer more. Ex-employees/employees abusing their access and knowledge to steal: https://abc7ny.com/post/david-lacarriere-gary-mcarthur-jfk-cargo-heist-airport/7453005/ https://abc7ny.com/post/david-lacarriere-gary-mcarthur-jfk-c... Theft ring. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/authorities-kennedy-airport-workers-busted-in-alleged-baggage-theft-ring/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/authorities-kennedy-air... Other thieving employees. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna22668524 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna22668524
- nielsbot 8mo ago
  > financial and time constraints I read this as "profit focus"
  - TeMPOraL 8mo ago
    I call that "hidden inflation", and if I were to guess, the ongoing degradation of services across the board, in every aspect, can easily account for actual inflation figures being half of what it feels they should be. It's the tiny things. Like, you visit a beauty salon or restaurant today, and compare it to the same or equivalent place 5 years ago. PDF menus instead of paper. Apps for booking instead of support staff. Leaflets where there used to be magazines to browse. No complimentary coffee. Kitchenware that used to be pristine and high-quality, is now the cheapest offering for commercial wholesaler. There's less light, worse decor, no music (or louder music, to boost turnover), worse sound-proofing, etc. Sure, the prices are the same, or maybe little higher. But the overall quality of service - not just direct service, but whole experience and ambiance - took a nosedive, so you pay a little more, for much less. You start looking for it, and the slow decay of everything becomes apparent even on the scale of months.
    - nielsbot 8mo ago
      Good points. It's sad--We really need to put checks on capitalism. I think that's the root of our major societal problems, especially in the US. (I am heartened to see more anti-capitalist comments on HN than ever.)
- PostOnce 8mo ago
  Very often the financial constraints are merely a euphemism for greed.
gib444 8mo ago
[flagged]
- rectang 8mo ago
  In the airplane industry, KPIs and beancounting are just a response to a mindbendingly price-driven marketplace — to the extent that consumers need to be protected by regulations from flying in unsafe planes. I agree that there's an issue about western capitalism, but I don't think it's in the tension between middle management and craftspeople who take pride in their work. I think the problems arise at a higher level, with the modern-day aristocracy of the capitalist ownership class and the slice of the pie that they capture.
m3kw9 8mo ago
real world user interface done right
Freedom2 8mo ago
I find that the US is the most likely country to have this attention to detail.
- PostOnce 8mo ago
  The entire US economy right now is propped up by the idea that we can pay ZERO attention to detail and have the AI do all the work, isn't it?
- pizzathyme 8mo ago
  As an American who has lived in Japan and traveled around Asia, Europe, and South America, Japan's attention to detail is almost superhuman. From how bathroom lines are managed, packages are wrapped, garden moss is curated, dishes are plated, everything is almost perfect. It's like the level of service in Michelin restaurants, applied down to the lowliest of jobs. There's nitpicks people will find with a statement like this but I've never found anything like it.

by jakub_g 8mo ago

afavour 8mo ago

I think it also highlights something: better things are possible. Zero lost suitcases doesn't require magic to achieve. It just requires enough workers or enough time to make sure each worker is able to do their job successfully. Unfortunately financial and time constraints mean that very often there aren't enough workers or enough time, and some passengers suffer.

ToucanLoucan 8mo ago
Oh why even mention time constraints, we all know damn well it's financial. Every corp on the face of the earth is constantly cost-cutting everything to the bone to justify more bonuses and higher executive compensation, while making sure the service or products provided are just barely good enough where people don't stage outright riots. In the sixties, the C-suite earned 21 times what the line worker did. In 2024 it's almost 300 times. So every single time you're dealing with a product that's been value-engineered to where it barely functions, or service people paid too little and empowered too little to actually help you, or stuck in a long ass line because they won't hire enough people, or stuck talking to some damn robot because people are expensive, it's beyond a safe bet that you have an executive or several to blame.
- rectang 8mo ago
  We should be spreading our cynicism over both management and customers. There is almost no level of service so terrible that people won't buy cheaper airline tickets. Let alone losing luggage, you could dial up the risk of death and people would still buy the cheaper tickets.
  - afavour 8mo ago
    There's also something about the collapse in civility. Or... something. If you asked a plane full of passengers if they'd be happy to get their suitcase 5 minutes earlier even though it meant someone else lost theirs a lot of them would say yes.
    - psadauskas 8mo ago
      I think we can lay the blame for this on the wealthy elites, too. When people see someone better off than them greedily destroying society for their own personal gain, they naturally think "well why not me, too?".
  - bombcar 8mo ago
    We need shame, really, societal shame that we inflict on those who have to take government benefits, perhaps. Flying an airline that's known to treat their employees like shit should cause the people at the cocktail to look at you strange. (We kind of have something like this in that shopping at Costco is considered "good" but lots of people won't admit they shop at Walmart - I'm sure they'll be bankrupt soon given how many people don't shop there!)
    - eudamoniac 8mo ago
      Not sure if this is sarcasm, but Walmart earnings continue to rise. Being embarrassed to shop at Walmart is largely a coastal elite bubble situation. For a more applicable example of shame, buying "cheap Chinese crap" is usually looked down on by all demographics or alignments.
      - bombcar 8mo ago
        That was the joke, everyone (at least in the coastal elite) says they don't shop at Walmart, but they exist everywhere. Same with "cheap Chinese crap" - everyone decries it, but apparently everyone is also buying it.
        8mo ago
- jama211 8mo ago
  Well not every one on the face of this earth as that’s where Kansai airport is located. It happens a lot in America and other places too but not everywhere
gmd63 8mo ago
Also requires a culture of respect for the people who are handling baggage - an important thing lacking in parts of society in the US, where working fast food is used as a pejorative.
- observationist 8mo ago
  The culture bit is the most important. You could add 100x the current headcount at all American airports and because the workers simply don't give a shit about doing good work, because they're treating it as a 9 to 5, where they have to go and suffer through a meaningless 8 hours, or worse, they treat it like their own personal access to other people's stuff to loot at will. The TSA is security theater, a vast majority of American jobs seem to be competence theater. You only ever tend to see care and craft in small business and actual crafts. It's so rare that it's incredibly refreshing to find anyone in any business that bothers to do good work and take care of the small things. It's not about respecting the baggage handlers. It's about a culture where you respect yourself such that you are obliged to do the best work you can, whether it's baggage handling, being a CEO, or flipping burgers. Self respect and respect for the job far outweigh any notion of employers or other citizens respecting baggage handlers. They have sophisticated notions of status and face and place in society that are sadly absent in American culture. You could take the Kansai airport baggage handler team and drop them into any airline in the world, and they'd perform to the same high standard. Take any halfass United Airline baggage team and drop them at Kansai and they'd be breaking guitars, killing dogs, and all the other usual shenanigans just like back at home, and they wouldn't give a flying rat's behind about how their employer respects them or not. They're there for paychecks. Respect doesn't even enter into consideration.
  - lostlogin 8mo ago
    > You could add 100x the current headcount at all American airports and because the workers simply don't give a shit about doing good work, because they're treating it as a 9 to 5, where they have to go and suffer through a meaningless 8 hours, or worse, they treat it like their own personal access to other people's stuff to loot at will. This places the blame solely on the workers. Their CEO earns a ludicrous multiple of their wage. They are treated like shit and are expendable. It’s a two way street, treat workers with respect and and you might get some respect from them.
psadauskas 8mo ago
> financial and time constraints What a passive way to say executives kept a larger share of profits for themselves, forcing workers to be stressed and do a sub-optimal job. Its like the news reports that say "an officers weapon was discharged and someone died at the scene", rather than "a cop shot and killed a guy".
- hodgesrm 8mo ago
  > What a passive way to say executives kept a larger share of profits for themselves, forcing workers to be stressed and do a sub-optimal job. This is a very limited view of why things don't work. The main issue in my experience is whether the company values the outcome and ensures focus on optimizing for it. That can include everything from adequate staffing to comp to training to management focus. (A lot of the last one.) You can spend a huge amount of money and still get a crappy outcome. US healthcare provides a rich field of examples.
  - nick238 8mo ago
    US healthcare is a leader in administration fees (e.g. paying health system executives) compared to other countries around the world. High US healthcare cost isn't because of increased usage, but because of the higher admin fees and higher prescription drug prices. Prices are fixed high because law prevents the government from negotiating prices (o.b.o. Medicare/aid), and those provisions were inserted on behalf of pharmaceutical companies so their executives could make more money. Paying individual workers more may have some benefits, but I think the key issue is usually overworking and burnout because the incremental cost of adding a whole new employee is way higher than just pressuring workers to do more work in the same time.
bakies 8mo ago
Something I noticed when I traveled to Japan was how many workers there were just doing things. Attention to detail is so amazing. Things as simple as guiding people in the sidewalk while construction vehicles exit the site has a person dedicated to it
- spaqin 8mo ago
  That sounds more like an attempt to fight with unemployment - any job, even if unnecessary, is better than no job for both finances and mental well-being.
  - bakies 8mo ago
    Compared to America where we don't even hire grocery store check out clerks anymore. I'd rather much be in the other boat.
mc32 8mo ago
Also you need to keep organized crime out of airports. Some percentage of lost luggage is actually stolen luggage. Misrouting is also another large percentage. In the US unclaimed lost luggage ends up in some gigantic warehouse in Alabama.
- tarentel 8mo ago
  What percentage? I imagine it is insanely low. The risk to reward ratio of making money off a random bag at the airpot has got to be as low, if not lower than, the actual percentage stolen. One thing I've never been worried about it is organized crime, or anyone really, stealing my bag at an airport.
  - ummonk 8mo ago
    My understanding is it's taken as a given that the authorities at US airports aren't bothering to catch baggage / item thieves amongst airport staff. The only exception is when a firearm (or luggage containing a firearm) goes missing.
  - mc32 8mo ago
    Some airports are more notorious than others. Some suffer very little losses from theft rings, others suffer more. Ex-employees/employees abusing their access and knowledge to steal: https://abc7ny.com/post/david-lacarriere-gary-mcarthur-jfk-cargo-heist-airport/7453005/ https://abc7ny.com/post/david-lacarriere-gary-mcarthur-jfk-c... Theft ring. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/authorities-kennedy-airport-workers-busted-in-alleged-baggage-theft-ring/ https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/authorities-kennedy-air... Other thieving employees. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna22668524 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna22668524
nielsbot 8mo ago
> financial and time constraints I read this as "profit focus"
- TeMPOraL 8mo ago
  I call that "hidden inflation", and if I were to guess, the ongoing degradation of services across the board, in every aspect, can easily account for actual inflation figures being half of what it feels they should be. It's the tiny things. Like, you visit a beauty salon or restaurant today, and compare it to the same or equivalent place 5 years ago. PDF menus instead of paper. Apps for booking instead of support staff. Leaflets where there used to be magazines to browse. No complimentary coffee. Kitchenware that used to be pristine and high-quality, is now the cheapest offering for commercial wholesaler. There's less light, worse decor, no music (or louder music, to boost turnover), worse sound-proofing, etc. Sure, the prices are the same, or maybe little higher. But the overall quality of service - not just direct service, but whole experience and ambiance - took a nosedive, so you pay a little more, for much less. You start looking for it, and the slow decay of everything becomes apparent even on the scale of months.
  - nielsbot 8mo ago
    Good points. It's sad--We really need to put checks on capitalism. I think that's the root of our major societal problems, especially in the US. (I am heartened to see more anti-capitalist comments on HN than ever.)
PostOnce 8mo ago
Very often the financial constraints are merely a euphemism for greed.

gib444 8mo ago

[flagged]

rectang 8mo ago
In the airplane industry, KPIs and beancounting are just a response to a mindbendingly price-driven marketplace — to the extent that consumers need to be protected by regulations from flying in unsafe planes. I agree that there's an issue about western capitalism, but I don't think it's in the tension between middle management and craftspeople who take pride in their work. I think the problems arise at a higher level, with the modern-day aristocracy of the capitalist ownership class and the slice of the pie that they capture.

m3kw9 8mo ago

real world user interface done right

Freedom2 8mo ago

I find that the US is the most likely country to have this attention to detail.

PostOnce 8mo ago
The entire US economy right now is propped up by the idea that we can pay ZERO attention to detail and have the AI do all the work, isn't it?
pizzathyme 8mo ago
As an American who has lived in Japan and traveled around Asia, Europe, and South America, Japan's attention to detail is almost superhuman. From how bathroom lines are managed, packages are wrapped, garden moss is curated, dishes are plated, everything is almost perfect. It's like the level of service in Michelin restaurants, applied down to the lowliest of jobs. There's nitpicks people will find with a statement like this but I've never found anything like it.