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Slight tangent, but I find it mind boggling that so few phones offer bootloader unlocking - which is essential if you truly want to own your phone. I was recen

Slight tangent, but I find it mind boggling that so few phones offer bootloader unlocking - which is essential if you truly want to own your phone. I was recently in the market for a new phone, and (correct me if I'm wrong) the only companies that offer bootloader unlocking is Google Pixels, Motorola, Nothing, and OnePlus. Samsung and Xiaomi I think both technically support it but it's a pain in the butt practically. That's... a shockingly small list!? . In my case, after adding "I want a CPU that isn't crap while being expensive" (eliminating Tensor) and "I don't want to pay full flagship prices for sub flagship performance" (eliminating Nothing), OnePlus and Motorola were pretty much the only two options! Is it that hard to get a phone you can truly own? I don't know, I honestly hope I'm missing something.

rainingmonkey 8mo ago
FxTec Pro1 comes with an unlocked bootloader, and a slide-out keyboard for the true 2010 experience!
stonogo 8mo ago
Does the OnePlus process work for people? They've got a form that allows you to beg them to let you unlock your phone, but it's never worked for me. Motorola works similarly but it does work, which is why I stick with them.
- Nekobai 8mo ago
  Is this country-specific? I've owned plenty of OnePlus devices over the years and the have all being unlockable without any issues, or without having to ask anything from anyone.
  - npodbielski 8mo ago
    At some point OnePlus announced that they will stop sharing firmware blobs. Lineage os team announced that they will be dropping the support. Then after another few years they were back. I remember because I bought 3 and I was planning to stay with that brand because of easy unlock (via ADB), decent price and good Lineage support. Probably OnePlus reconsidered this at some point. Right now fairly new ones have support. Maybe OP was unlucky and bought one of those models from this period of time.
    - zozbot234 8mo ago
      This has nothing to do with the unlocking though. Unlocking a OnePlus phone is just standard procedure and requires no involvement by the manufacturer.
- fc417fc802 8mo ago
  Meanwhile Pixel doesn't require me to fill out any forms or contact anyone which is why I only use those at this point. IIRC in at least some cases the initial flip of the toggle requires internet access but that doesn't really bother me. If the process requires anything beyond "internet access" I'm not purchasing the device.
- nosioptar 8mo ago
  My op 7 pro didn't require using their form in any way. I did have to be careful to buy the variant supported by lineageos. (I think the t mobile version of this phone does require using op form, which I've heard rarely works.)
matthewkayin 8mo ago
To take this a step further. I want a phone that is small (doesn't have to be tiny, just iPhone SE 2020 or smaller, please), has a replaceable battery, has an unlocked bootloader, has a headphone jack, and costs $400 or less. It doesn't need to have a cutting-edge processor or tons of RAM and storage space or a 120hz screen or razor-thin bezels or a studio-worthy camera, yet somehow all these things are prioritized on the market over a basic, reliable phone.
- renewiltord 8mo ago
  Most 2012 era used phones will work here. Pick one off eBay.
  - progbits 8mo ago
    Batteries will be in bad shape. Can we do 2010s phones with 2020s battery tech and modems please?
    - mrkstu 8mo ago
      'replaceable battery'
      - fsflover 8mo ago
        "chart of phones with replaceable batteries": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099020
        solnyshok 8mo ago
        it is very difficult to find good (as in "good condition") battery for a 5+ old gadget. even if you find original one - it could be expired and DoA. but more often you get "compatibles" which die in 3-6 months.
  - hamdingers 8mo ago
    Wouldn't work very well as a phone though. The networks a 2012 phone support no longer exist. 2G and 3G are both fully shut down where I live. Even if you specifically got a 4G phone from 2012 it might not support VoLTE, so you'd be unable to make calls. As a wifi internet device it would work but I'm not sure that's what OP is going for.
zb3 8mo ago
Motorola? Is there an up-to-date list of devices where they're "so kind" as to allow bootloader unlocking? Because it's a lottery to me..
- m132 8mo ago
  It's always a hit or miss with Motorola, but this should up your chances: https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame/blob/main/brands/motorola/README.md https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame...
fsflover 8mo ago
> (correct me if I'm wrong) the only companies that offer bootloader unlocking is Google Pixels, Motorola, Nothing, and OnePlus Pinephone and Librem 5 (my daily driver) do not have a locked bootloader in the first place. They are just little (GNU/)Linux computers.
- craftkiller 8mo ago
  The Librem 5 would be eliminated by the additional requirements of: > "I want a CPU that isn't crap while being expensive" > "I don't want to pay full flagship prices for sub flagship performance" Adding my own experience: the battery life is also atrocious[0] and simply running a software update on a completely stock librem 5[1] managed to send it into an infinite boot loop that I was only able to recover from by flashing the factory image. [0] Sitting on a shelf, with the screen off, not connected to cellular networks, not being used at all except to check the battery % periodically throughout the day: I got ~11 hours of battery life. My pixel 10 has been operating under the same conditions for 4 days and is still at 71% battery life (I'm intentionally draining it down to ~50% for long term storage while I wait for the bootloader to unlock in 2 years). [1] The phone had been sitting on a shelf gathering dust for years. No software had been installed, no accounts had been set up, it had never actually been used as a phone. Could not get more "stock" than that.
  - fsflover 8mo ago
    > "I don't want to pay full flagship prices for sub flagship performance" First, it is a flagship GNU/Linux phone. Second, https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ > I got ~11 hours of battery life Looks like you didn't enable the suspend. Later updates brought it to >20 hours. > simply running a software update on a completely stock librem 5[1] managed to send it into an infinite boot loop that I was only able to recover from by flashing the factory image. When was it? I never experienced this. It could be a problem in the first years though. Current PureOS Crimson is stable.
    - craftkiller 8mo ago
dheera 8mo ago
I just want Google to remove that SafetyNet crap. Banks don't need to know if I unlocked my bootloader. I can't even use the Waymo app either.
- yoavm 8mo ago
  I'd argue that banks DO need to know that you've unlocked your bootloader, but they should present you with a "Your phone bootloader is unlocked. If you don't know what it means or you didn't do it yourself, exit the app now and contact customer support." The problem is that app makers are lazy.
  - fc417fc802 8mo ago
    So if I call in on the phone do they need a video feed of my surroundings to verify that I'm not being extorted? Perhaps if I come into a branch in person to make a large withdrawal they need a drug test to ensure that I'm not intoxicated? They absolutely do not have any need to know anything about my bootloader or OS version or safety net or otherwise. It's certainly true that it is within the realm of physical possibility for them to put that information to good use in a responsible manner if they had access to it. But being able to make use of something is not the same as a legitimate need.
    - lotsofpulp 8mo ago
      I can see a future where a video from a hardware/software stack verified by Apple/Google is a required mechanism for authentication. For example, you have to say or otherwise signal that you authorize the transaction to x person for y amount on z date. I kind of do it with my tenants when I record a video walk through at the beginning and end of the lease to serve as proof of damages. I could use a checklist on paper and a signature, but I feel like a video is better evidence for me.
    - yoavm 8mo ago
      They don't check if you're not intoxicated, but yes it would be very sensible that when you walk into the bank and make a transaction the bank person would look at you, and if there's a strange person standing behind your back with sunglasses and a hat, they'd tell you "hey, this guy has been following you into the bank and is listening to everything you say, are you aware and are okay with that?"
izacus 8mo ago
This is a regional thing - a lot of manufacturers offer bootloader unlocking in EU when they don't in US for example. US especially is a nasty carrier monopoly where carriers are allowed (and actively defended) when they do henous lockin.
snowhale 8mo ago
[dead]
e12e 8mo ago
Sony used to be surprisingly good on this - but I'm uncertain what the current status actually is: https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-devices/get-started/unlock-bootloader https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-d... > Note: New devices XQ-CT62 (1Ⅳ US variant) and XQ-CQ62 (5Ⅳ US variant) do not support bootloader unlock. https://xdaforums.com/t/unlock-bootloader-and-root-guide-xperia-1-vii-xq-fs72.4740840/ https://xdaforums.com/t/unlock-bootloader-and-root-guide-xpe...

rainingmonkey 8mo ago

FxTec Pro1 comes with an unlocked bootloader, and a slide-out keyboard for the true 2010 experience!

stonogo 8mo ago

Does the OnePlus process work for people? They've got a form that allows you to beg them to let you unlock your phone, but it's never worked for me. Motorola works similarly but it does work, which is why I stick with them.

Nekobai 8mo ago
Is this country-specific? I've owned plenty of OnePlus devices over the years and the have all being unlockable without any issues, or without having to ask anything from anyone.
- npodbielski 8mo ago
  At some point OnePlus announced that they will stop sharing firmware blobs. Lineage os team announced that they will be dropping the support. Then after another few years they were back. I remember because I bought 3 and I was planning to stay with that brand because of easy unlock (via ADB), decent price and good Lineage support. Probably OnePlus reconsidered this at some point. Right now fairly new ones have support. Maybe OP was unlucky and bought one of those models from this period of time.
  - zozbot234 8mo ago
    This has nothing to do with the unlocking though. Unlocking a OnePlus phone is just standard procedure and requires no involvement by the manufacturer.
fc417fc802 8mo ago
Meanwhile Pixel doesn't require me to fill out any forms or contact anyone which is why I only use those at this point. IIRC in at least some cases the initial flip of the toggle requires internet access but that doesn't really bother me. If the process requires anything beyond "internet access" I'm not purchasing the device.
nosioptar 8mo ago
My op 7 pro didn't require using their form in any way. I did have to be careful to buy the variant supported by lineageos. (I think the t mobile version of this phone does require using op form, which I've heard rarely works.)

matthewkayin 8mo ago

To take this a step further. I want a phone that is small (doesn't have to be tiny, just iPhone SE 2020 or smaller, please), has a replaceable battery, has an unlocked bootloader, has a headphone jack, and costs $400 or less. It doesn't need to have a cutting-edge processor or tons of RAM and storage space or a 120hz screen or razor-thin bezels or a studio-worthy camera, yet somehow all these things are prioritized on the market over a basic, reliable phone.

renewiltord 8mo ago
Most 2012 era used phones will work here. Pick one off eBay.
- progbits 8mo ago
  Batteries will be in bad shape. Can we do 2010s phones with 2020s battery tech and modems please?
  - mrkstu 8mo ago
    'replaceable battery'
    - fsflover 8mo ago
      "chart of phones with replaceable batteries": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099020
      - solnyshok 8mo ago
        it is very difficult to find good (as in "good condition") battery for a 5+ old gadget. even if you find original one - it could be expired and DoA. but more often you get "compatibles" which die in 3-6 months.
- hamdingers 8mo ago
  Wouldn't work very well as a phone though. The networks a 2012 phone support no longer exist. 2G and 3G are both fully shut down where I live. Even if you specifically got a 4G phone from 2012 it might not support VoLTE, so you'd be unable to make calls. As a wifi internet device it would work but I'm not sure that's what OP is going for.

zb3 8mo ago

Motorola? Is there an up-to-date list of devices where they're "so kind" as to allow bootloader unlocking? Because it's a lottery to me..

m132 8mo ago
It's always a hit or miss with Motorola, but this should up your chances: https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame/blob/main/brands/motorola/README.md https://github.com/zenfyrdev/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame...

fsflover 8mo ago

> (correct me if I'm wrong) the only companies that offer bootloader unlocking is Google Pixels, Motorola, Nothing, and OnePlus Pinephone and Librem 5 (my daily driver) do not have a locked bootloader in the first place. They are just little (GNU/)Linux computers.

craftkiller 8mo ago
The Librem 5 would be eliminated by the additional requirements of: > "I want a CPU that isn't crap while being expensive" > "I don't want to pay full flagship prices for sub flagship performance" Adding my own experience: the battery life is also atrocious[0] and simply running a software update on a completely stock librem 5[1] managed to send it into an infinite boot loop that I was only able to recover from by flashing the factory image. [0] Sitting on a shelf, with the screen off, not connected to cellular networks, not being used at all except to check the battery % periodically throughout the day: I got ~11 hours of battery life. My pixel 10 has been operating under the same conditions for 4 days and is still at 71% battery life (I'm intentionally draining it down to ~50% for long term storage while I wait for the bootloader to unlock in 2 years). [1] The phone had been sitting on a shelf gathering dust for years. No software had been installed, no accounts had been set up, it had never actually been used as a phone. Could not get more "stock" than that.
- fsflover 8mo ago
  > "I don't want to pay full flagship prices for sub flagship performance" First, it is a flagship GNU/Linux phone. Second, https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/ > I got ~11 hours of battery life Looks like you didn't enable the suspend. Later updates brought it to >20 hours. > simply running a software update on a completely stock librem 5[1] managed to send it into an infinite boot loop that I was only able to recover from by flashing the factory image. When was it? I never experienced this. It could be a problem in the first years though. Current PureOS Crimson is stable.
  - craftkiller 8mo ago

dheera 8mo ago

I just want Google to remove that SafetyNet crap. Banks don't need to know if I unlocked my bootloader. I can't even use the Waymo app either.

yoavm 8mo ago
I'd argue that banks DO need to know that you've unlocked your bootloader, but they should present you with a "Your phone bootloader is unlocked. If you don't know what it means or you didn't do it yourself, exit the app now and contact customer support." The problem is that app makers are lazy.
- fc417fc802 8mo ago
  So if I call in on the phone do they need a video feed of my surroundings to verify that I'm not being extorted? Perhaps if I come into a branch in person to make a large withdrawal they need a drug test to ensure that I'm not intoxicated? They absolutely do not have any need to know anything about my bootloader or OS version or safety net or otherwise. It's certainly true that it is within the realm of physical possibility for them to put that information to good use in a responsible manner if they had access to it. But being able to make use of something is not the same as a legitimate need.
  - lotsofpulp 8mo ago
    I can see a future where a video from a hardware/software stack verified by Apple/Google is a required mechanism for authentication. For example, you have to say or otherwise signal that you authorize the transaction to x person for y amount on z date. I kind of do it with my tenants when I record a video walk through at the beginning and end of the lease to serve as proof of damages. I could use a checklist on paper and a signature, but I feel like a video is better evidence for me.
  - yoavm 8mo ago
    They don't check if you're not intoxicated, but yes it would be very sensible that when you walk into the bank and make a transaction the bank person would look at you, and if there's a strange person standing behind your back with sunglasses and a hat, they'd tell you "hey, this guy has been following you into the bank and is listening to everything you say, are you aware and are okay with that?"

izacus 8mo ago

This is a regional thing - a lot of manufacturers offer bootloader unlocking in EU when they don't in US for example. US especially is a nasty carrier monopoly where carriers are allowed (and actively defended) when they do henous lockin.

snowhale 8mo ago

[dead]

e12e 8mo ago

Sony used to be surprisingly good on this - but I'm uncertain what the current status actually is: https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-devices/get-started/unlock-bootloader https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-d... > Note: New devices XQ-CT62 (1Ⅳ US variant) and XQ-CQ62 (5Ⅳ US variant) do not support bootloader unlock. https://xdaforums.com/t/unlock-bootloader-and-root-guide-xperia-1-vii-xq-fs72.4740840/ https://xdaforums.com/t/unlock-bootloader-and-root-guide-xpe...