4 ms·

In my house we discuss a macro feature of children as being "school-shaped". If Terence Tao wasn't school-shaped, would he have been as successful? The counter-

In my house we discuss a macro feature of children as being "school-shaped". If Terence Tao wasn't school-shaped, would he have been as successful? The counter-point to that is to ponder how many children fail to achieve a similar level of success because they don't fit into the school system so are left by the wayside.

ekjhgkejhgk 8mo ago
> If Terence Tao wasn't school-shaped, would he have been as successful? He learned to read and write by himself. I'm pretty sure he would've been fine regardless of shape.
- simsla 8mo ago
  And that's probably the opposite of being school-shaped. School is hellishly boring if you're ahead of the curve.
  - mlrtime 8mo ago
    The pdf linked seems to disagree with your assessment, at least for Tao.
    - agrounds 8mo ago
      Agreed. But generally it very much depends on the school and the effort of those in and around it. Terrence was very fortunate to have parents who supported him and likely lobbied for his unconventional high school/primary school split education, and equally fortunate that his schools were able and willing to accommodate him.
  - kenjackson 8mo ago
    That's a specific school problem. I think being school-shaped is not about being bored, but more about being willing to do tasks on a schedule and can learn a lot of material through a lecture style.
- fuzzfactor 8mo ago
  At that age I thought it was perfectly normal, just not universal. What sticks in my mind from the pre-school Mad magazines was the mascot philosophy; "What, me worry?"
sfn42 8mo ago
Where I grew up there wasn't any way to deal with those of us who did better. If you did worse there were all sorts of programs, they would move you to a separate small class so you could get extra help and stuff like that. My problem was everything was too easy. I was bored. I would get reprimanded for not working because they gave us an hour worth of work, I finished it in 10 minutes and then did other stuff. I basically didn't have to study for anything, I just showed up and got Bs. If I put in 10% effort I got As. And all I ever got for it was yelled at for having done everything they asked me to do too fast. So I started sitting in the back of the classroom minding my own business and trying not to be noticed. I'm convinced my life would have been very different if I hadn't been completely jaded from most of my teachers basically punishing me for being better than the rest. By my mid teens I didn't give a shit, I was happy coasting along doing better than the rest just by showing up. My choices were my own and I'm doing pretty well now. Got my shit together in my late 20s and got a CS degree. Best decision I ever made. But I can't help but think I could have ended up on a path like this much earlier if my teachers actually supported me rather than treating me like a problem.
- bonsai_spool 8mo ago
  > But I can't help but think I could have ended up on a path like this much earlier if my teachers actually supported me rather than treating me like a problem. It's interesting you raise your teachers / organized schooling when Tao's parents were cited earlier in the thread for providing him materials. Where do you see mothers and fathers stepping in (or not!) with children of greater ability?
  - sfn42 8mo ago
    My parents did provide me with materials. They were happy to buy me books and stuff. But school is where I spent most my time and did most of my learning. My single father had enough to deal with, working full time alongside being a farmer. He isn't exactly an academic. He did what he could. The school system failed me massively. Both in not supporting nor encouraging my exceptional performance, and in ignoring my bullies even when they walked in on it and when I told them about it.
PaulHoule 8mo ago
There is the ideal of school and then there is school. I was very 'school-shaped' if by school you mean I could sit quietly and read books and solve problems. More school-shaped than the other kids. If by school you mean that bullies don't find you interesting, that nobody threatens to kill you, then I was not 'school-shaped' at all. I was really excited to go to school on day one, within a year it tuned very bad and I wish, retrospectively, I'd had the courage to stay home.

ekjhgkejhgk 8mo ago

> If Terence Tao wasn't school-shaped, would he have been as successful? He learned to read and write by himself. I'm pretty sure he would've been fine regardless of shape.

simsla 8mo ago
And that's probably the opposite of being school-shaped. School is hellishly boring if you're ahead of the curve.
- mlrtime 8mo ago
  The pdf linked seems to disagree with your assessment, at least for Tao.
  - agrounds 8mo ago
    Agreed. But generally it very much depends on the school and the effort of those in and around it. Terrence was very fortunate to have parents who supported him and likely lobbied for his unconventional high school/primary school split education, and equally fortunate that his schools were able and willing to accommodate him.
- kenjackson 8mo ago
  That's a specific school problem. I think being school-shaped is not about being bored, but more about being willing to do tasks on a schedule and can learn a lot of material through a lecture style.
fuzzfactor 8mo ago
At that age I thought it was perfectly normal, just not universal. What sticks in my mind from the pre-school Mad magazines was the mascot philosophy; "What, me worry?"

sfn42 8mo ago

Where I grew up there wasn't any way to deal with those of us who did better. If you did worse there were all sorts of programs, they would move you to a separate small class so you could get extra help and stuff like that. My problem was everything was too easy. I was bored. I would get reprimanded for not working because they gave us an hour worth of work, I finished it in 10 minutes and then did other stuff. I basically didn't have to study for anything, I just showed up and got Bs. If I put in 10% effort I got As. And all I ever got for it was yelled at for having done everything they asked me to do too fast. So I started sitting in the back of the classroom minding my own business and trying not to be noticed. I'm convinced my life would have been very different if I hadn't been completely jaded from most of my teachers basically punishing me for being better than the rest. By my mid teens I didn't give a shit, I was happy coasting along doing better than the rest just by showing up. My choices were my own and I'm doing pretty well now. Got my shit together in my late 20s and got a CS degree. Best decision I ever made. But I can't help but think I could have ended up on a path like this much earlier if my teachers actually supported me rather than treating me like a problem.

bonsai_spool 8mo ago
> But I can't help but think I could have ended up on a path like this much earlier if my teachers actually supported me rather than treating me like a problem. It's interesting you raise your teachers / organized schooling when Tao's parents were cited earlier in the thread for providing him materials. Where do you see mothers and fathers stepping in (or not!) with children of greater ability?
- sfn42 8mo ago
  My parents did provide me with materials. They were happy to buy me books and stuff. But school is where I spent most my time and did most of my learning. My single father had enough to deal with, working full time alongside being a farmer. He isn't exactly an academic. He did what he could. The school system failed me massively. Both in not supporting nor encouraging my exceptional performance, and in ignoring my bullies even when they walked in on it and when I told them about it.

PaulHoule 8mo ago

There is the ideal of school and then there is school. I was very 'school-shaped' if by school you mean I could sit quietly and read books and solve problems. More school-shaped than the other kids. If by school you mean that bullies don't find you interesting, that nobody threatens to kill you, then I was not 'school-shaped' at all. I was really excited to go to school on day one, within a year it tuned very bad and I wish, retrospectively, I'd had the courage to stay home.