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We warned everyone that this would happen [0] but HN fell for the populism trap. And no one on the Hill will do anything to impact services exports, especially

We warned everyone that this would happen [0] but HN fell for the populism trap. And no one on the Hill will do anything to impact services exports, especially for voters who work in maligned industries like Tech [1], Big Oil [2], and Wall Street [3] that are overwhelmingly concentrated in single party states like California, Washington, Texas, and New York and as such can't swing elections the same way an Autoworker, Healthcare Worker, or Farmworker can. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45308408 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45308408 [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-11/india-draws-52-billion-from-amazon-microsoft-in-tech-expansion https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-11/india-dra... [2] - https://www.wsj.com/business/energy-oil/big-oil-is-offshoring-its-prized-engineering-jobs-to-india-2e487fd0?st=6e6u1D&reflink=article_copyURL_share https://www.wsj.com/business/energy-oil/big-oil-is-offshorin... [3] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2025-11-11/trump-s-h-1b-visa-curbs-banks-to-add-more-finance-specialist-jobs-in-india https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2025-11-11/trump-s-h...

weirdmantis69 8mo ago
oh well.... I'm totally fine with this.
- barbazoo 8mo ago
  Certainly for the people working there, right?
kadabra9 8mo ago
I love how this is always framed as a "pipeline and talent" problem issue (its not), when it's really a "pipeline and talent at salaries I want to pay" issue.
- alephnerd 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - kadabra9 8mo ago
    Yeah, we know. I wish guys like you could just be honest and admit its really just about trying to save on labor costs rather than trying to frame this issue like there's some massive lack of skilled domestic engineering talent here.
    - alephnerd 8mo ago
      It is talent though. You can't write a performant Linux runtime agent such as what Wiz did without knowing eBPF, which requires also understanding Linux internals, which requires an OS background. Why should I spend $150k training someone who has no experience from scratch for 1 year? A lot of table stakes curricula has been made optional.
      - anonym29 8mo ago
        There are plenty of non-juniors who meet all of your expectations, you just want to pay them less than market rate for their expertise.
        skeledrew 8mo ago
        Market rate is a function of supply and demand. Unless the market is regulated.
        anonym29 8mo ago
        Right. Demand is fairly rigid from companies who need the labor. But they, as for-profit entities, want to maximize shareholder value, so instead of paying market rate for labor when the market rate is high, companies attempt to decrease the market rate by increasing labor supply through a variety of means - lobbying for modern indentured servitude (H1b's), shipping jobs overseas, etc. This stands in direct contrast to the stated arguments they use to justify such moves, like "there isn't sufficient talent inside the US". There is sufficient talent inside the US, it just comes with a price tag they don't like.
- parineum 8mo ago
  Every economic decisions has that "at the price I want" caveat at the end of it? There's no housing shortage, just a shortage of house at the right place and price. Different places have the right price, the right places don't have the right prices. There's no job shortage, just a shortage of jobs that pay what I want and am qualified for. Shortages happen in controlled economies, capitalism just adjusts prices.
  - Scarblac 8mo ago
    Houses are different. There is a finite number of them at any time and if there are not enough for everyone, there's a shortage. If wages are too high, then some work just doesn't get done, some business plans are now unviable. But everybody needs a place to live.
- ThrowawayR2 8mo ago
  I like paying as little as possible for everything I buy as well and so does everyone else reading this. So what's the problem?
  - kadabra9 8mo ago
    At least you own it, rather than making up an excuse like "talent shortage" or "pipeline" issue to try to conceal the fact that at the end of the day you're just trying to save a buck.
jmclnx 8mo ago
Yes I say you are right, but that only proves these companies only want to hire very cheap labor. There is talent in the US, all it takes is training. Decades ago companies would train new hires out of college, but that trend ended in the 90s. Wall Street started forcing these companies to chase fast market growth and high stock prices. In many cases profit has no meaning for these startups, the only metric is stock price growing. Then once the investors can sell the stock, they bail leaving the company to figure out how to survive by itself.
- simianwords 8mo ago
  It’s less this but more that talent diversity is present elsewhere. You need constant supply of talent and a good ecosystem that sustains it. Focusing talent only in a small geographical area has its own risks.
  - kadabra9 8mo ago
    Talent diversity willing to work for lower salaries is present elsewhere. That's really what it comes down to.
    - simianwords 8mo ago
      Yeah so? Willing to work for lower salaries is tied to the dynamic of having more supply of labour. What alternative do you propose?
- jonfw 8mo ago
  > Decades ago companies would train new hires out out college, but that trend ended in the 90s. Decades ago engineering salaries were a fraction of what they are today, developing countries did not have computing and educational infrastructure, and we had worse solutions to the logistics challenges from off-shoring. It is increasingly difficult to justify the US salaries and I'm not sure that the talent pipeline in the US is so superior to make up for it. As folks optimize for getting these high paying jobs it is increasingly difficult to find someone who has legitimate problem solving skills vs someone who has invested a lot of effort into looking hireable.
energy123 8mo ago
Warned? I knew this was going to happen and want to see more of it. I don't believe in government enforced discrimination based on country of origin. If you can't compete with someone overseas that's on you, don't make it my problem and don't go crying to the government to force others to hire you.
- eudamoniac 8mo ago
  Do you believe in workers' rights?
  - energy123 8mo ago
    It depends if that's a euphemism for nativist negative-sum protectionism.
    - eudamoniac 8mo ago
      If I can't compete with someone overseas because I legally have to get a minimum wage and various benefits, while overseas guy will work 996 with a dollar an hour, why is that on me? We can either have worker's rights or we can have a globally equal competitive field, but not both.
      - energy123 8mo ago
        The problem for me is that your conceptualization of worker's rights negatively impacts poorer people, stuck in poorer countries, who need that work more for basic survival. So if we're forming normative opinions based on morality (reducing suffering or whatnot), why would I support that? And if we're not not appealing to morality, then what are you appealing to, and why would I want to go along with it? The only argument I see is a nativist and protectionist one, which uses the superficial facade of morality as a misdirection. My intention is not to punch down on anyone. I support some level of taxation and wealth redistribution. I support anti-slavery legislation.

weirdmantis69 8mo ago

oh well.... I'm totally fine with this.

barbazoo 8mo ago
Certainly for the people working there, right?

kadabra9 8mo ago

I love how this is always framed as a "pipeline and talent" problem issue (its not), when it's really a "pipeline and talent at salaries I want to pay" issue.

alephnerd 8mo ago
[flagged]
- kadabra9 8mo ago
  Yeah, we know. I wish guys like you could just be honest and admit its really just about trying to save on labor costs rather than trying to frame this issue like there's some massive lack of skilled domestic engineering talent here.
  - alephnerd 8mo ago
    It is talent though. You can't write a performant Linux runtime agent such as what Wiz did without knowing eBPF, which requires also understanding Linux internals, which requires an OS background. Why should I spend $150k training someone who has no experience from scratch for 1 year? A lot of table stakes curricula has been made optional.
    - anonym29 8mo ago
      There are plenty of non-juniors who meet all of your expectations, you just want to pay them less than market rate for their expertise.
      - skeledrew 8mo ago
        Market rate is a function of supply and demand. Unless the market is regulated.
        anonym29 8mo ago
        Right. Demand is fairly rigid from companies who need the labor. But they, as for-profit entities, want to maximize shareholder value, so instead of paying market rate for labor when the market rate is high, companies attempt to decrease the market rate by increasing labor supply through a variety of means - lobbying for modern indentured servitude (H1b's), shipping jobs overseas, etc. This stands in direct contrast to the stated arguments they use to justify such moves, like "there isn't sufficient talent inside the US". There is sufficient talent inside the US, it just comes with a price tag they don't like.
parineum 8mo ago
Every economic decisions has that "at the price I want" caveat at the end of it? There's no housing shortage, just a shortage of house at the right place and price. Different places have the right price, the right places don't have the right prices. There's no job shortage, just a shortage of jobs that pay what I want and am qualified for. Shortages happen in controlled economies, capitalism just adjusts prices.
- Scarblac 8mo ago
  Houses are different. There is a finite number of them at any time and if there are not enough for everyone, there's a shortage. If wages are too high, then some work just doesn't get done, some business plans are now unviable. But everybody needs a place to live.
ThrowawayR2 8mo ago
I like paying as little as possible for everything I buy as well and so does everyone else reading this. So what's the problem?
- kadabra9 8mo ago
  At least you own it, rather than making up an excuse like "talent shortage" or "pipeline" issue to try to conceal the fact that at the end of the day you're just trying to save a buck.

jmclnx 8mo ago

Yes I say you are right, but that only proves these companies only want to hire very cheap labor. There is talent in the US, all it takes is training. Decades ago companies would train new hires out of college, but that trend ended in the 90s. Wall Street started forcing these companies to chase fast market growth and high stock prices. In many cases profit has no meaning for these startups, the only metric is stock price growing. Then once the investors can sell the stock, they bail leaving the company to figure out how to survive by itself.

simianwords 8mo ago
It’s less this but more that talent diversity is present elsewhere. You need constant supply of talent and a good ecosystem that sustains it. Focusing talent only in a small geographical area has its own risks.
- kadabra9 8mo ago
  Talent diversity willing to work for lower salaries is present elsewhere. That's really what it comes down to.
  - simianwords 8mo ago
    Yeah so? Willing to work for lower salaries is tied to the dynamic of having more supply of labour. What alternative do you propose?
jonfw 8mo ago
> Decades ago companies would train new hires out out college, but that trend ended in the 90s. Decades ago engineering salaries were a fraction of what they are today, developing countries did not have computing and educational infrastructure, and we had worse solutions to the logistics challenges from off-shoring. It is increasingly difficult to justify the US salaries and I'm not sure that the talent pipeline in the US is so superior to make up for it. As folks optimize for getting these high paying jobs it is increasingly difficult to find someone who has legitimate problem solving skills vs someone who has invested a lot of effort into looking hireable.

energy123 8mo ago

Warned? I knew this was going to happen and want to see more of it. I don't believe in government enforced discrimination based on country of origin. If you can't compete with someone overseas that's on you, don't make it my problem and don't go crying to the government to force others to hire you.

eudamoniac 8mo ago
Do you believe in workers' rights?
- energy123 8mo ago
  It depends if that's a euphemism for nativist negative-sum protectionism.
  - eudamoniac 8mo ago
    If I can't compete with someone overseas because I legally have to get a minimum wage and various benefits, while overseas guy will work 996 with a dollar an hour, why is that on me? We can either have worker's rights or we can have a globally equal competitive field, but not both.
    - energy123 8mo ago
      The problem for me is that your conceptualization of worker's rights negatively impacts poorer people, stuck in poorer countries, who need that work more for basic survival. So if we're forming normative opinions based on morality (reducing suffering or whatnot), why would I support that? And if we're not not appealing to morality, then what are you appealing to, and why would I want to go along with it? The only argument I see is a nativist and protectionist one, which uses the superficial facade of morality as a misdirection. My intention is not to punch down on anyone. I support some level of taxation and wealth redistribution. I support anti-slavery legislation.