5 ms·

Who actually wants this? Kids obsesses with TikTok don't care about federated/open source bits. People who do are not on TikTok or interested in this type of br

Who actually wants this? Kids obsesses with TikTok don't care about federated/open source bits. People who do are not on TikTok or interested in this type of brainrot in the first place. What am I missing?

brikym 8mo ago
Maybe it could be what prescribed Methadone is to Heroin addicts.
- intothemild 8mo ago
  Watching all these open source, federated versions of social media platforms is like if you found out your favourite drug was actually manufactured by some really bad people and made people around the world suffer. So you make an open source version of the drug. Similar formula, just this time the people can own it. Sure you cut out the bad people, but is the situation improved now?
  - groestl 8mo ago
    There are projects where long term addicts are given pure medical heroin (Diamorphin) in a controlled environment, and they do considerably better than their control group who does not receive their drugs like that. E.g. https://patrida.de/ https://patrida.de/
    - cornholio 8mo ago
      Their drug is rage, thirst and cute trap videos generated by AI and selected for maximum engagement. If it's not harmful it's not the same drug. Unlike diamorphine, a medical grade supply does not reduce harm; it's more like sniffing glue, inhaling poison to escape reality.
  - dbdr 8mo ago
    The harm from social media is at least in part caused by the feed suggestion algorithm being optimized for screen time (aka addiction). Potentially open social media where the suggestion algorithm is not that could be a big improvement.
  - pjc50 8mo ago
    That's no way to talk about Open-Cola.
- MilanTodorovic 8mo ago
  I don't think that's a good analogy. You can't "hospitalize" someone into Loops for rehabilitation. Don't fight the symptoms, fight the cause.
- raincole 8mo ago
  Heroin is illegal, so the first step to make this analogy work is to criminalize TikTok.
  - larodi 8mo ago
    Long overdue in fact. But then perhaps heroin wouldn’t be illegal if it was big pharma was producing it in large quantities. It just got barred early enough. Besides why we always forget how addictive and damaging is the well available alcohol?
    - adrianN 8mo ago
      Heroin or similar compounds are in fact produced by big Pharma in large quantities.
    - lillecarl 8mo ago
      Alcohol has fucked up more lives than any other drug in my sphere. People who have had their life fucked by drugs has mostly been because of inhumane government intervention. // Sweden
      - whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
        Yeah the legal thing used by people many magnitudes more than hard illegal drugs had an effect on more people than something used by a relatively small minority will impact more people you know. How many heroin users do you know who manage to only have 1-2 hits a week socially though and hold down a career.
      - larodi 8mo ago
        The most apparent addictions that ruin precious lives everywhere around us, in every country, are freely available because "eyes wide open" and most of the times - intentional misinformation (you can think of it also as tradition). These are: Alcohol (+the prescription benzo combo) Gambling Sugar Add to these tobacco if you want. Nicotine on its won as a standalone agent is perhaps no more damaging than caffeine, but is used in a form-factor that really grills one's lungs. for example - Russian influenced Balkan areas all take drinking of vodka as something super normal.
Grimburger 8mo ago
Yeah I can make a dropbox clone in a one-liner bash command too Outright dismissal like this should be judged as harshly as the comment itself.
- DaSHacka 8mo ago
  At least dropbox isn't addictive brainrot lol Even the peers I know that use TikTok admit they should really be using it less and that it's total slop. It's truly the purest interpretation of junkfood in internet form
- raincole 8mo ago
  The parent comment explained why they dismissed this in clear language. Yours is a random weird comparison to Dropbox (how is it related to this post? Which side is Dropbox, TikTok or Loops?)
  - jdeisenberg 8mo ago
    I think this is a reference to when Dropbox was first introduced. I recall posts dismissing it as “just something that could be done as well with a bash script”.
    - Moldoteck 8mo ago
      And who is dropbox in this situation? A federated implementation for me looks more like the bash script while tiktok would be the dbox
  - niel 8mo ago
    I believe GP is referencing this classic comment from 2007 on Drew's original Show HN post for Dropbox: > For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
  - wiseowise 8mo ago
thunfischtoast 8mo ago
Hackers sometimes create things not to actually use them, but because they are curious how something works and to see if they can
- haltcatchfire 8mo ago
  dansup, the guy behind this, is the same guy that runs Pixelfed (a federated Instagram alternative)
refulgentis 8mo ago
TikTok is brainrot the same way YouTube is brainrot is the same way TV is brainrot is the same way moving pictures are brainrot. The medium is not the message. (I.e. TikTok is damn good)
gregman1 8mo ago
I noticed that some lemmy instances and channels are managed in the same way Facebook and Reddit groups are - by corporations, using many bot accounts that fake user behavior/anctivity and make echo chamber environment. So if corpo approach was compromised why not migrate the plethora of experience and knowledge to another platform to continue brainwashing disguised as marketing strategy and facilitation.
Lio 8mo ago
The world could do with a decent, privacy focused, YouTube competitor. Maybe this could grow into that?
- huijzer 8mo ago
  PeerTube currently seems like the best bet for that
- dewey 8mo ago
  Who is going to pay for the video bandwidth?
  - rglullis 8mo ago
    WebTorrents make it work so that everyone shares the cost of distribution.
    - dewey 8mo ago
      This comes up every time someone posts a PeerTube link...and it's never as good of a user experience as videos playing from YouTube. If it would work well for every user streaming services wouldn't spend millions on CDNs and streaming infra.
jampekka 8mo ago
A lot of older (even elderly) people watch TikTok and other short form video streams, e.g. Instagram or YouTube shorts. But I wouldn't put past kids caring about such things either.
boriskourt 8mo ago
TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen as some teen trend. People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. Loops is nice because it isn't algorithm oriented. You can follow folks and just see their things if you like, or see whats on the instance. Loops doesn't need to 'slay tiktok' Loops just needs to grow organically and support the niches that feel like using it, and it can take the time to do that at any pace. Its success is not determined by user numbers or series rounds. I don't like to produce short form video, but its been nice to now follow a few people on Loops from Mastodon. Its nice that the Fediverse allows multiple forms of expression.
- wiseowise 8mo ago
  > People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?
  - blablablerg 8mo ago
    Yes.
  - boriskourt 8mo ago
    yes, a lot of the issues around this come because of the lack of dignity.
    - pjc50 8mo ago
      Both in the case of drugs and short form vertical video. There's a lot of stuff which may loosely be termed "vices", e.g. alcohol and gambling, which have the property: - many people never touch - many people indulge without significant harm, getting enjoyment from the process - some people over indulge messily - a few people get their lives completely ruined, or ruin the lives of those around them Then there's an uncomfortable, unreconcilable tension between the desire to punish/prevent the last group by banning the thing, versus the second group entirely reasonably saying that it's not a problem for them.
mft_ 8mo ago
What you’re missing is that there’s maybe a bigger crossover between people (and age groups) who use TikTok and people who might prefer it if they weren’t tracked and monetised, than you are imagining. My experience is that TikTok’e algorithm is so good it largely reflects the individual user. My feed is 99% wholesome - presumably because that’s how I’ve trained it over time. I’m amazed by other people’s stories of bad TikTok - just not my experience.
- dewey 8mo ago
  > it if they weren’t tracked and monetised I think that group of people if very small, but overrepresented on sites like this. Regular people just don't care. They _might_ pay to remove ads, but because they are annoying not because they are afraid of tracking or being monetized.
  - mft_ 8mo ago
    I agree that HN is not representative, but amongst my definitely-not-tech-aware friends, there's certainty awareness about privacy and social media. This might manifest in avoiding specific apps (for example, I have a friend who refuses to install TikTok, despite being active in Instagram) or strict controls of their children's use. There's another group who don't necessarily take any action immediately, but might switch if there was a competitive alternative. But of course there's a network effect: being an early adopter of Signal (over Whatsapp) was lonely but eventually enough people came along. Bluesky is doing okay vs. Twitter. Without people trying to offer an alternative, nothing will ever change.

brikym 8mo ago

Maybe it could be what prescribed Methadone is to Heroin addicts.

intothemild 8mo ago
Watching all these open source, federated versions of social media platforms is like if you found out your favourite drug was actually manufactured by some really bad people and made people around the world suffer. So you make an open source version of the drug. Similar formula, just this time the people can own it. Sure you cut out the bad people, but is the situation improved now?
- groestl 8mo ago
  There are projects where long term addicts are given pure medical heroin (Diamorphin) in a controlled environment, and they do considerably better than their control group who does not receive their drugs like that. E.g. https://patrida.de/ https://patrida.de/
  - cornholio 8mo ago
    Their drug is rage, thirst and cute trap videos generated by AI and selected for maximum engagement. If it's not harmful it's not the same drug. Unlike diamorphine, a medical grade supply does not reduce harm; it's more like sniffing glue, inhaling poison to escape reality.
- dbdr 8mo ago
  The harm from social media is at least in part caused by the feed suggestion algorithm being optimized for screen time (aka addiction). Potentially open social media where the suggestion algorithm is not that could be a big improvement.
- pjc50 8mo ago
  That's no way to talk about Open-Cola.
MilanTodorovic 8mo ago
I don't think that's a good analogy. You can't "hospitalize" someone into Loops for rehabilitation. Don't fight the symptoms, fight the cause.
raincole 8mo ago
Heroin is illegal, so the first step to make this analogy work is to criminalize TikTok.
- larodi 8mo ago
  Long overdue in fact. But then perhaps heroin wouldn’t be illegal if it was big pharma was producing it in large quantities. It just got barred early enough. Besides why we always forget how addictive and damaging is the well available alcohol?
  - adrianN 8mo ago
    Heroin or similar compounds are in fact produced by big Pharma in large quantities.
  - lillecarl 8mo ago
    Alcohol has fucked up more lives than any other drug in my sphere. People who have had their life fucked by drugs has mostly been because of inhumane government intervention. // Sweden
    - whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
      Yeah the legal thing used by people many magnitudes more than hard illegal drugs had an effect on more people than something used by a relatively small minority will impact more people you know. How many heroin users do you know who manage to only have 1-2 hits a week socially though and hold down a career.
    - larodi 8mo ago
      The most apparent addictions that ruin precious lives everywhere around us, in every country, are freely available because "eyes wide open" and most of the times - intentional misinformation (you can think of it also as tradition). These are: Alcohol (+the prescription benzo combo) Gambling Sugar Add to these tobacco if you want. Nicotine on its won as a standalone agent is perhaps no more damaging than caffeine, but is used in a form-factor that really grills one's lungs. for example - Russian influenced Balkan areas all take drinking of vodka as something super normal.

Grimburger 8mo ago

Yeah I can make a dropbox clone in a one-liner bash command too Outright dismissal like this should be judged as harshly as the comment itself.

DaSHacka 8mo ago
At least dropbox isn't addictive brainrot lol Even the peers I know that use TikTok admit they should really be using it less and that it's total slop. It's truly the purest interpretation of junkfood in internet form
raincole 8mo ago
The parent comment explained why they dismissed this in clear language. Yours is a random weird comparison to Dropbox (how is it related to this post? Which side is Dropbox, TikTok or Loops?)
- jdeisenberg 8mo ago
  I think this is a reference to when Dropbox was first introduced. I recall posts dismissing it as “just something that could be done as well with a bash script”.
  - Moldoteck 8mo ago
    And who is dropbox in this situation? A federated implementation for me looks more like the bash script while tiktok would be the dbox
- niel 8mo ago
  I believe GP is referencing this classic comment from 2007 on Drew's original Show HN post for Dropbox: > For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
- wiseowise 8mo ago

thunfischtoast 8mo ago

Hackers sometimes create things not to actually use them, but because they are curious how something works and to see if they can

haltcatchfire 8mo ago
dansup, the guy behind this, is the same guy that runs Pixelfed (a federated Instagram alternative)

refulgentis 8mo ago

TikTok is brainrot the same way YouTube is brainrot is the same way TV is brainrot is the same way moving pictures are brainrot. The medium is not the message. (I.e. TikTok is damn good)

gregman1 8mo ago

I noticed that some lemmy instances and channels are managed in the same way Facebook and Reddit groups are - by corporations, using many bot accounts that fake user behavior/anctivity and make echo chamber environment. So if corpo approach was compromised why not migrate the plethora of experience and knowledge to another platform to continue brainwashing disguised as marketing strategy and facilitation.

Lio 8mo ago

The world could do with a decent, privacy focused, YouTube competitor. Maybe this could grow into that?

huijzer 8mo ago
PeerTube currently seems like the best bet for that
dewey 8mo ago
Who is going to pay for the video bandwidth?
- rglullis 8mo ago
  WebTorrents make it work so that everyone shares the cost of distribution.
  - dewey 8mo ago
    This comes up every time someone posts a PeerTube link...and it's never as good of a user experience as videos playing from YouTube. If it would work well for every user streaming services wouldn't spend millions on CDNs and streaming infra.

jampekka 8mo ago

A lot of older (even elderly) people watch TikTok and other short form video streams, e.g. Instagram or YouTube shorts. But I wouldn't put past kids caring about such things either.

boriskourt 8mo ago

TikTok has ~1.59 billion global active users, if you go to Cambodia you will have a hard time not seeing it in the wild. It is painful that this is still seen as some teen trend. People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. Loops is nice because it isn't algorithm oriented. You can follow folks and just see their things if you like, or see whats on the instance. Loops doesn't need to 'slay tiktok' Loops just needs to grow organically and support the niches that feel like using it, and it can take the time to do that at any pace. Its success is not determined by user numbers or series rounds. I don't like to produce short form video, but its been nice to now follow a few people on Loops from Mastodon. Its nice that the Fediverse allows multiple forms of expression.

wiseowise 8mo ago
> People enjoy short form video, people should be able to enjoy things they like with dignity, which is in extremely short supply on algorithm and advert driven social media. People “enjoy” heroin, crack cocaine, fentanyl too, should they “enjoy” them with dignity too?
- blablablerg 8mo ago
  Yes.
- boriskourt 8mo ago
  yes, a lot of the issues around this come because of the lack of dignity.
  - pjc50 8mo ago
    Both in the case of drugs and short form vertical video. There's a lot of stuff which may loosely be termed "vices", e.g. alcohol and gambling, which have the property: - many people never touch - many people indulge without significant harm, getting enjoyment from the process - some people over indulge messily - a few people get their lives completely ruined, or ruin the lives of those around them Then there's an uncomfortable, unreconcilable tension between the desire to punish/prevent the last group by banning the thing, versus the second group entirely reasonably saying that it's not a problem for them.

mft_ 8mo ago

What you’re missing is that there’s maybe a bigger crossover between people (and age groups) who use TikTok and people who might prefer it if they weren’t tracked and monetised, than you are imagining. My experience is that TikTok’e algorithm is so good it largely reflects the individual user. My feed is 99% wholesome - presumably because that’s how I’ve trained it over time. I’m amazed by other people’s stories of bad TikTok - just not my experience.

dewey 8mo ago
> it if they weren’t tracked and monetised I think that group of people if very small, but overrepresented on sites like this. Regular people just don't care. They _might_ pay to remove ads, but because they are annoying not because they are afraid of tracking or being monetized.
- mft_ 8mo ago
  I agree that HN is not representative, but amongst my definitely-not-tech-aware friends, there's certainty awareness about privacy and social media. This might manifest in avoiding specific apps (for example, I have a friend who refuses to install TikTok, despite being active in Instagram) or strict controls of their children's use. There's another group who don't necessarily take any action immediately, but might switch if there was a competitive alternative. But of course there's a network effect: being an early adopter of Signal (over Whatsapp) was lonely but eventually enough people came along. Bluesky is doing okay vs. Twitter. Without people trying to offer an alternative, nothing will ever change.