7 ms·

> the real culprit could simply be boiled down to a failure in classroom management and lack of enforcement against cell phones in class I was a middle school

by japhyr 8mo ago

> the real culprit could simply be boiled down to a failure in classroom management and lack of enforcement against cell phones in class I was a middle school and high school math and science teacher from 1994 through 2019. I watched the advent of internet in schools, then desktop computers in classrooms, and finally smartphones in students' hands. I've lived a life of watching teachers and schools get blamed for not dealing better with society's issues. "Just teach kids how to use technology", "just ban phones", and "lock down irrelevant websites" is a pretty big ask when the entire industry is focused on getting kids to use these devices, apps, and sites as much as they possibly can.

telman17 8mo ago
I can definitely see the push for using technology in schools - what you're saying makes sense. It's not the individual teachers I blame. I come from a family of educators and a lot of the crappy enforcement falls to the district level, who just want to make the parents happy. There is literally no reason a child needs a cell phone in class. Computers are great. Lock them down. There is nothing unreasonable about this.
- xethos 8mo ago
  Are we sure it isn't the offensively-well-funded tech industry that's being referenced here?
  - salawat 8mo ago
    You're not suggesting the most overinflated asset class in the market might somehow be involved though predatory pushing of product into education to get em hooked while they're young are you?! /s
- carabiner 8mo ago
  Tech industry composed of many of the smartest people in the world with the most money, and the backing of the current US presidency vs. average middle America school district. Hmm.
mschuster91 8mo ago
And on top of that, in many countries (not just the US) teachers, school and the students themselves don't have anywhere near the financial resources that they need. Schools are (literally) falling apart, here in Germany it became apparent during Covid that a ton of schools had windows that rotted so far they couldn't be opened, in the US there are states that introduced 4 day school weeks due to budget constraints [1], way too many school children live in utter poverty meaning they get their only warm meal at school [2], with that meal sometimes being of even lower quality than prison food to the tune it was a recurring joke in The Simpsons, class sizes are too huge, teaching material is outdated or censored to the point of being useless [3], students are too poor to afford basic supplies meaning teachers step in [4], teachers lack the time and budget to actually educate themselves and keep up with modern development, teachers lack the budget, room and/or political backing from their superiors to actually use what they learned in university or in after-graduation continuous training in practice, students lack the privacy at home (and often enough: a safe home or EVEN A HOME AT ALL [5]) to learn in peace and safety. And on top of that comes the deluge of ChatGPT slop, sexual abuse both domestic and amongst students, bullying, domestic violence, "parents" using their kids as weapons to hurt their ex partners, stalking, gang violence, in Europe you got traumatized kids coming from war torn countries with zero support structure, in the US you got kids scared to hell and beyond about ICE. Honestly, I'm not surprised that both students and teachers are checking out into the dream world of their phones. We are failing our children, but hey, the stonk number goes brr!!! And taxes are lower!!!!!! (Education budgets is usually the first thing that gets slashed because it takes about 10-20 years to show a noticeable negative effect) [1] https://www.nctq.org/research-insights/amid-budget-and-staffing-battles-can-four-day-school-weeks-save-the-day/ https://www.nctq.org/research-insights/amid-budget-and-staff... [2] https://thecounter.org/summer-hunger-new-york-city/ https://thecounter.org/summer-hunger-new-york-city/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_banning_in_the_United_States_(2021%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_banning_in_the_United_Sta... [4] https://19thnews.org/2025/08/teachers-spending-school-supplies-debt-crowdfunding/ https://19thnews.org/2025/08/teachers-spending-school-suppli... [5] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2025/12/28/number-of-homeless-students-jumps/87620804007/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2025/12/28/numb...
- MichaelRo 8mo ago
iambateman 8mo ago
What would be better policy, in your opinion?
- CJefferson 8mo ago
  Having taught in schools for years? Treat companies that make addictive products the same way we treat drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Kids want them, particularly teenagers. We aren't perfect at stopping their access. But we can make a best attempt. It would be hard, and it would be 'anti-capitalism', but, I think we have done real long term damage to a generation, and I think in 20 years, like Tobacco, it I'll turn out the companies knew how much they were damaging children and covered it up.
  - deaux 8mo ago
    > It would be hard, and it would be 'anti-capitalism' These things are opposites - the former is a downside, the latter an upside.
  - ch4s3 8mo ago
    It's not anti-capitalism to not spend public money on nonsense that doesn't further the goals of education, no is it anti-capitalism to control the learning environment in schools. What we have is a collective action problem.
- assaddayinh 8mo ago
  Faraday cages built into school buildings.
  - red-iron-pine 8mo ago
    there will be one school shooting and no one would be able to call 911 and then there will be a public outcry. the big tech companies making these phones and apps will amplify that outcry hard, and the phones will be let back in. the addiction will continue.
jimt1234 8mo ago
Don't forget that teachers these days are also expected to be active shooter experts, ready to literally put their own lives on the line.
deaux 8mo ago
> I've lived a life of watching teachers and schools get blamed for not dealing better with society's issues. "Just teach kids how to use technology", "just ban phones", and "lock down irrelevant websites" is a pretty big ask when the entire industry is focused on getting kids to use these devices, apps, and sites as much as they possibly can. Hey, you only have a >$13 _trillion_ dollar modern tobacco industry behemoth up against you, including 90% of this very message board. Just, you know, stand up to it, duh. The $13 trillion is only Meta/Apple/Google/Microsoft, so it doesn't even include all the gambling, crypto, gacha games and so on whose sole aim is to enslave the kids you're teaching. Good luck!
eudamoniac 8mo ago
I'm not that old. "Just ban phones" worked perfectly fine when I was in high school in 2010. "Just ban cigarettes" also worked, and no one was smoking in the classroom. It's not a hard problem; the administration just refuses to solve it.
- Teever 8mo ago
  How do you expect anyone to take what you just wrote seriously when there's such a blatantly obvious difference in the detectability of the use of these two different products?
  - eudamoniac 8mo ago
    The two products of phones in 2026 and phones in 2010? In 2010 they were smaller.
  - array_key_first 8mo ago
    It's just not relevant. When I was in highschool some teachers had a thingy on the wall where you would hang up your cell phone in a pouch. If it wasn't there, you better have a good explanation, or you'll be counted absent. The solutions are simple and effectively free. That's not the issue. The issue is nobody wants to do the solutions. Schools don't, parents don't, kids don't. Everyone is just lying to themselves. You can't on one hand claim to care about kids and then on the other dismiss obvious tactics like banning cell phones.
  - pas 8mo ago
    what do you mean? if some kid doesn't want to pay attention they can draw doodles, daydream, read a book under the table, talk to other students, and finally ... be on their phone. we did all of these! (played snake on a 3310.) up to a point the teacher's job is to notice these, and motivate the student to pay attention (report cards, detention, extra homework), or ask for them to be removed from class if they are disruptive, if necessary permanently.

by japhyr 8mo ago

telman17 8mo ago

I can definitely see the push for using technology in schools - what you're saying makes sense. It's not the individual teachers I blame. I come from a family of educators and a lot of the crappy enforcement falls to the district level, who just want to make the parents happy. There is literally no reason a child needs a cell phone in class. Computers are great. Lock them down. There is nothing unreasonable about this.

xethos 8mo ago
Are we sure it isn't the offensively-well-funded tech industry that's being referenced here?
- salawat 8mo ago
  You're not suggesting the most overinflated asset class in the market might somehow be involved though predatory pushing of product into education to get em hooked while they're young are you?! /s
carabiner 8mo ago
Tech industry composed of many of the smartest people in the world with the most money, and the backing of the current US presidency vs. average middle America school district. Hmm.

mschuster91 8mo ago

And on top of that, in many countries (not just the US) teachers, school and the students themselves don't have anywhere near the financial resources that they need. Schools are (literally) falling apart, here in Germany it became apparent during Covid that a ton of schools had windows that rotted so far they couldn't be opened, in the US there are states that introduced 4 day school weeks due to budget constraints [1], way too many school children live in utter poverty meaning they get their only warm meal at school [2], with that meal sometimes being of even lower quality than prison food to the tune it was a recurring joke in The Simpsons, class sizes are too huge, teaching material is outdated or censored to the point of being useless [3], students are too poor to afford basic supplies meaning teachers step in [4], teachers lack the time and budget to actually educate themselves and keep up with modern development, teachers lack the budget, room and/or political backing from their superiors to actually use what they learned in university or in after-graduation continuous training in practice, students lack the privacy at home (and often enough: a safe home or EVEN A HOME AT ALL [5]) to learn in peace and safety. And on top of that comes the deluge of ChatGPT slop, sexual abuse both domestic and amongst students, bullying, domestic violence, "parents" using their kids as weapons to hurt their ex partners, stalking, gang violence, in Europe you got traumatized kids coming from war torn countries with zero support structure, in the US you got kids scared to hell and beyond about ICE. Honestly, I'm not surprised that both students and teachers are checking out into the dream world of their phones. We are failing our children, but hey, the stonk number goes brr!!! And taxes are lower!!!!!! (Education budgets is usually the first thing that gets slashed because it takes about 10-20 years to show a noticeable negative effect) [1] https://www.nctq.org/research-insights/amid-budget-and-staffing-battles-can-four-day-school-weeks-save-the-day/ https://www.nctq.org/research-insights/amid-budget-and-staff... [2] https://thecounter.org/summer-hunger-new-york-city/ https://thecounter.org/summer-hunger-new-york-city/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_banning_in_the_United_States_(2021%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_banning_in_the_United_Sta... [4] https://19thnews.org/2025/08/teachers-spending-school-supplies-debt-crowdfunding/ https://19thnews.org/2025/08/teachers-spending-school-suppli... [5] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2025/12/28/number-of-homeless-students-jumps/87620804007/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2025/12/28/numb...

MichaelRo 8mo ago

iambateman 8mo ago

What would be better policy, in your opinion?

CJefferson 8mo ago
Having taught in schools for years? Treat companies that make addictive products the same way we treat drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Kids want them, particularly teenagers. We aren't perfect at stopping their access. But we can make a best attempt. It would be hard, and it would be 'anti-capitalism', but, I think we have done real long term damage to a generation, and I think in 20 years, like Tobacco, it I'll turn out the companies knew how much they were damaging children and covered it up.
- deaux 8mo ago
  > It would be hard, and it would be 'anti-capitalism' These things are opposites - the former is a downside, the latter an upside.
- ch4s3 8mo ago
  It's not anti-capitalism to not spend public money on nonsense that doesn't further the goals of education, no is it anti-capitalism to control the learning environment in schools. What we have is a collective action problem.
assaddayinh 8mo ago
Faraday cages built into school buildings.
- red-iron-pine 8mo ago
  there will be one school shooting and no one would be able to call 911 and then there will be a public outcry. the big tech companies making these phones and apps will amplify that outcry hard, and the phones will be let back in. the addiction will continue.

jimt1234 8mo ago

Don't forget that teachers these days are also expected to be active shooter experts, ready to literally put their own lives on the line.

deaux 8mo ago

> I've lived a life of watching teachers and schools get blamed for not dealing better with society's issues. "Just teach kids how to use technology", "just ban phones", and "lock down irrelevant websites" is a pretty big ask when the entire industry is focused on getting kids to use these devices, apps, and sites as much as they possibly can. Hey, you only have a >$13 _trillion_ dollar modern tobacco industry behemoth up against you, including 90% of this very message board. Just, you know, stand up to it, duh. The $13 trillion is only Meta/Apple/Google/Microsoft, so it doesn't even include all the gambling, crypto, gacha games and so on whose sole aim is to enslave the kids you're teaching. Good luck!

eudamoniac 8mo ago

I'm not that old. "Just ban phones" worked perfectly fine when I was in high school in 2010. "Just ban cigarettes" also worked, and no one was smoking in the classroom. It's not a hard problem; the administration just refuses to solve it.

Teever 8mo ago
How do you expect anyone to take what you just wrote seriously when there's such a blatantly obvious difference in the detectability of the use of these two different products?
- eudamoniac 8mo ago
  The two products of phones in 2026 and phones in 2010? In 2010 they were smaller.
- array_key_first 8mo ago
  It's just not relevant. When I was in highschool some teachers had a thingy on the wall where you would hang up your cell phone in a pouch. If it wasn't there, you better have a good explanation, or you'll be counted absent. The solutions are simple and effectively free. That's not the issue. The issue is nobody wants to do the solutions. Schools don't, parents don't, kids don't. Everyone is just lying to themselves. You can't on one hand claim to care about kids and then on the other dismiss obvious tactics like banning cell phones.
- pas 8mo ago
  what do you mean? if some kid doesn't want to pay attention they can draw doodles, daydream, read a book under the table, talk to other students, and finally ... be on their phone. we did all of these! (played snake on a 3310.) up to a point the teacher's job is to notice these, and motivate the student to pay attention (report cards, detention, extra homework), or ask for them to be removed from class if they are disruptive, if necessary permanently.